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Post by OutRosez on Feb 17, 2018 20:42:00 GMT
OutRosez You know what really bothers me in all this? The Russian government has plausible deniability, those Russian individuals will never be punished, the Americans they used to set the fake rallies had zero clue they were being used, the fake accounts they created were stolen information of legitimate Americans so those guys are compromised. Russians got what they wanted - US in chaos under Trump. We also know they will be back again this year (they probably are) and the next presidential election. THEY WON! What the fuck happens to democracy now? It was taken through hell with the use of social media and going forward, we have no way of knowing whether an account is legitimate or something conjured up by Russian agents. Can you ever even trust the Russians aren't involved in future elections? Lol.. I don't know how you counter this sort of war moving forward. They could just setup vpns and simulate being American or hell, hire Americans who have no idea they are being used. And all it took was $1.5 million to severely damage democracy in this country. No superspook cold war KGB/CIA spy shit, no crazy funding, no secret weapon, no science tech, not even a big number of staff. Just a relatively small group of people in a few offices somewhere in Russia severely damaged democracy. Putin probably laughing his way to sleep every day since Nov 9 2016. This is gonna be long probably and I'ma take it in several parts. First, punishing Russia won't happen until Trump is gone. He won't impose the sanctions that Congress easily passed. He refuses to accept blame/fault for election tampering on his behalf (and neither do his reporters). If you look at it extremely conspiratorially, so put on your tin foil hat please, Trump acknowledges that this started in 2014. Totally under Obama right? Well........not exactly. Miss Universe 2013 was the Moscow one where supposedly this plan started being hatched. If you REALLY believe in the dossier, and a lot of it is independently verified/Steele has no reason to falsify the thing anyway it started then. The Internet Research Agency was started in 2014 just a year after that. BUT if you want to get really conspiracy theory, like I mean deep web shit it starts earlier. Trump wanted BADLY to run in 2012. It wasn't a well kept secret, he just couldn't get his campaign stuff in order, and by the time he had stuff in line he couldn't enter because Romney had basically already become the guy despite losing a couple early states. In 2011 no one knew Putin wanted to seek a third term, at least not publicly. People who knew him as a power hungry guy? Definitely. It makes sense, he's a dictator there. He's ex-KGB, he knows global politics, and his plan is largely based on a pretty big Russian politics book. So I think really he started planning it then. By 2011 the Russia/America relationship started to break down a lot and he saw some potential stooges for not 2012, but 2016. He couldn't ever get Romney, Bush 3, Rubio, etc because they're all Russia-phobes. But the guy who just hates black people, globalism (which excluded him multiple times from opening up Trump hotels in Moscow but other tycoons got in), and doesn't understand anything about politics whatsoever? Perfect guy to run in a time where the global economy is changing, American people are afraid of the future because of globalism, coal and factory jobs are leaving or just closing altogether, etc. Rough race relations in America added in especially as the cops shooting black kids number went up weekly. Trump fits the bill on a lot of those. But Putin knew without the proper campaign structure already in place he couldn't get something going in 2012, so he just would wait until 2016 when Trump had a better chance of putting things together. That's why his first few campaign managers/higher ups are heavily involved in Russian money laundering, spying, or something else. So Putin maybe blackmailed maybe didn't depending on if you believe the pee tape/Trump debt stuff, Trump into running in 2016 when he was already eager to do it anyway. He set up the IRA, and some other spying stuff. Got his ducks in a row as much as he could because he knew Trump wouldn't or couldn't do it. Russia spent a lot more than 1.35 million though. 100 million here plus whatever they paid people to do random shit at rallies. This wasn't a cheap endeavor by any means. Especially with how they had to back channel the money/accounts through several places. As for the what happens to democracy now? It's a tough question to answer. We've been hacking or "monitoring" elections in other countries for decades probably determining outcomes in the third world for a while. For the social media stuff/ads, it's on the people to be smarter and not just get their news from random political blogs/twitter "journalists". The echo chamber on social media is a big problem, and so are the ads. Facebook to be fair, has realized this and is making changes and accepting some fault to a degree about the part they played. Whether or not they're making those changes to help out Zuckerberg in 2020, we'll find out. At the very least that's concerning given his entanglement with the largest social network on the planet. One thing that the Russians aren't smart about, or perhaps maybe didn't do well enough/weren't well enough informed about American politics is where they hacked the elections probably. 70K across the midwest is brilliant, like that's perfectly done. It's convincing and inconspicuous enough to work within the framework of what we know about the midwest-afraid globalism, job markets are going away, the people are older and concerned about the future of what remains of their automotive, coal, textile, etc jobs. Especially as the country gets greener. It works. But they've largely failed with the special elections. I mean where the democrats ran a liberal they nearly won every time in DEEP red areas, by hitting the same issues Trump has. Like there's no way that a Democrat should come within 5 points in 2 of the 40 most conservative districts in the country in SC-5, and Kansas whatever the number was. Then even with all the baggage for Roy Moore Democrats won in the second reddest state in the country, a state in which they hadn't had an elected Dem in 25 years (longer than that really because Shelby flipped to Republican in 94 when the Dems lost the house because he was worried about his senate seat). They either didn't have the desire to help Trump in those times, didn't know to do it, or didn't really care for whatever reason. By all accounts Republicans won the GA-6 special election because they turned out. It was just a few months after Trump's election so that explains why. It was a heated national race because Dems were dumb and dumped millions in on the race because it was Hillary's best district of the 4 special election seats in 2017. The others? They mostly stayed home because it was a rough year for Trump. Especially in Alabama. Part of that is who Roy Moore is, and Alabamans don't like him generally anyway, and part of that is Democrats turned out in huge numbers exactly where they needed to for Jones to win. He got the black vote out in Birmingham and the college vote out around Auburn and Alabama. He fucking nailed that and did it while being progressive. Same shit with the Virginia House of Delegates. Tons of liberal candidates and they all won even in deep red districts in one of the 5-7 most gerrymandered states. Running left worked, has worked, and will continue to work because the message works for people. Look at Obama's book "The Audacity of Hope" he wrote about this stuff in 2006! He knew where it was going and ran fairly far to the left, especially of Hillary, and won big because of that. He governed more moderate than that, but still fairly left of traditional Dems. It's an effective message. 2018 is gonna come down to a few things. Turnout being the biggest. I'm willing to bet that Putin either doesn't care about the House/Senate enough, or doesn't know the signs of a wave election. Because it's coming, it's unavoidable at this point. Dems are a routine +10 on generic ballot, which while not enough to steal the House because of how gerrymandered the districts are in some states it makes it in play given how badly the government is running, Republicans not really turning out, a fair economy but maybe one showing signs of slowing down, etc. There's a lot of momentum for Democrats. Putin is gonna have to have the right districts/states hacked. Don't get me wrong there's easy scenarios where the Dems get 7 million more House votes but are still the House minority, but as long as Trump's approval stays low, and Russia stuff keeps coming out that's a big help. Hopefully, 2018 goes well enough for Dems that they can do what Trump and Congress won't: fix the election machines. Either make them hack-proof, or go paper ballots. If the dems win enough governors races, it won't matter as much. Plus they'll be redrawing the maps for the next decade of elections as well, so 2022-2030 should be a big improvement. The best part is, Dems have several advantages after getting steamrolled the last few elections in state races. First, not a lot to lose! YAY FOR UNDERPERFORMANCE!!!! WOO!!!!! Second, the states they have up are pretty blue ones: New York, Hawaii, Oregon, Rhode Island, and a less blue but I'm still calling it blue: Pennsylvania which is redrawing its maps as we speak and they should be done well enough to have the dems go from 5 house members to 9-10 thankfully which in an election where you need 24 seats that's fucking huge. As for the dems who are term limited, it's rough, but still not bad: Minnesota, Colorado, Connecticut, and California. Oh but these Republican seats up? Are you sitting down? Is your mouth full of saliva? If not it's about to be! We got a ton of fucking great governors races coming up: Arizona, Florida, Georgia (stretch calling it fucking great but I'm going with it), Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, and Wisconsin. Then a few more less intriguing but dreaming is cool: Maine, Ohio, Tennessee, and Texas, and a few more deep red states where there's no chance at all probably. But if they win the rust belt and break up the gerrymandering it's gonna be really nice. Part of that comes down to running some strong candidates, making sure turn out stays high, get the people fucking hyped to vote, and encouraging everyone to register and making sure that they know where the polling stations are. |
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Post by bladefd on Feb 17, 2018 23:14:01 GMT
OutRosez Took me a while but I read your thorough post, and I appreciate your insight into the political process. You are right about Russians spending a lot more than 1.5 million. I didn't take into account everything else leading up to the rallies and facebook ads/twitter propaganda. I guess it took more capital than we realize to screw with trying to control Trump. Now I wonder how much damage Putin could have done with just facebook ads, twitter propaganda and rallies if his only goal was chaos. I think he can do it much cheaper if he only wants chaos rather than control. Going forward, he doesn't need to worry about control anymore because we are paranoid, partisan and unhinged now after Muellar investigation. He just has to cause chaos going forward, which he can do much cheaper with just a small spark. That has potential to be worrisome. Perhaps Putin isn't as concerned about House/Senate as you said. I mean the president singlehandedly controls an entire branch, but House/Senate, on the other hand, is very difficult to truly get a pulse on or to control part of the outcome due to so many moving pieces. Even the CIA in 50s/60s/70s didn't get down to small scale propaganda stuff because it was too tedious, difficult and costly to focus on the small moving pieces. It could backfire for Putin to waste capital and resources on those smaller elections in 2018 so maybe we have less to worry about this year as opposed to presidential election in 2020. Russians will no doubt learn from the mistakes they made in 2016, and I expect they will be back even stronger when they return. I guess it's not a question of 'if' but 'when'?
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Post by OutRosez on Feb 18, 2018 0:02:14 GMT
OutRosez Took me a while but I read your thorough post, and I appreciate your insight into the political process. You are right about Russians spending a lot more than 1.5 million. I didn't take into account everything else leading up to the rallies and facebook ads/twitter propaganda. I guess it took more capital than we realize to screw with trying to control Trump. Now I wonder how much damage Putin could have done with just facebook ads, twitter propaganda and rallies if his only goal was chaos. I think he can do it much cheaper if he only wants chaos rather than control. Going forward, he doesn't need to worry about control anymore because we are paranoid, partisan and unhinged now after Muellar investigation. He just has to cause chaos going forward, which he can do much cheaper with just a small spark. That has potential to be worrisome. Perhaps Putin isn't as concerned about House/Senate as you said. I mean the president singlehandedly controls an entire branch, but House/Senate, on the other hand, is very difficult to truly get a pulse on or to control part of the outcome due to so many moving pieces. Even the CIA in 50s/60s/70s didn't get down to small scale propaganda stuff because it was too tedious, difficult and costly to focus on the small moving pieces. It could backfire for Putin to waste capital and resources on those smaller elections in 2018 so maybe we have less to worry about this year as opposed to presidential election in 2020. Russians will no doubt learn from the mistakes they made in 2016, and I expect they will be back even stronger when they return. I guess it's not a question of 'if' but 'when'? The most interesting part about the ads stuff (and I'm stealing this idea from Nate Silver) is how they were geared toward suppressing the minority vote as a primary goal. Pretty interesting stuff when you consider how big of a block that is for Dems, the relatively low (although not THAT low) turnout for blacks in 2016 especially in comparison to 2012 which was a record breaking year. I mean it dipped around 5% from its high to around where it was pre-Obama years. Was it that there wasn't an African American candidate on the ballot? Suppression from polling booths? Sudden "closures" of polling places, movement of polling places, lack of general interest in voting, the Russians? etc. It's largely a factor of all of those things. The real question is how many of those ads were geared towards the 70k votes that caused Hillary the election, and how much the turnout dropped from there. In an election that tight 5% is fucking huge. Even 2% probably decides the election. Again it's really hard to prove a direct correlation given the highs under Obama, but they fell to Bush 04 levels/92 Clinton stuff. I think if you really looked at where the ads were geared towards, and just examined turnout you might find some surprising facts. Don't get me wrong I don't think the ads played a particularly large part in voting suppression for blacks because that was mostly moving of polling places last minute, voter ID requirements, closing of polling places in red states in predominantly black areas. I think the optimum outcome is the Dems retake either the House or Senate (both would be nice and they're certainly in play) and can do their own investigations into it along side of Mueller. I mean the Senate intel panel is great, don't get me wrong. And Schiff is doing all he can with the House Investigation panel but being in the minority for both doesn't help the Dems get to the bottom of it. Richard Burr's role in the Senate investigation is huge and should absolutely be commended because unlike the other 50 Republicans, he's actually trying to do stuff and get to the bottom of it even if he doesn't like what he's finding, and even with party pressure to shut it down. Whenever there's a Hollywood movie/miniseries about this shit, he should get a great 5 minutes in the movie. If they get both houses then they can at least try and impeach him. If the Russia stuff keeps going and you can definitively prove Trump's connections with Putin surely they can get 15 or however many Rs to cast him out for fear of losing their own seats when they're up otherwise their party will probably die, and it might anyway or at least become two different parties. I have my own predictions for 2020, and I don't think they can really help Trump if he's still on the ballot then. He benefited a lot from the massive primary field dividing everything up for so long that it was basically too late to stop him, and there's gonna be challenges to him for sure 100% within his own party. Kasich and Mittens are definitely 100% running. And even if Trump somehow is still on the ticket in November, I can't imagine them helping him win without it being blatantly obvious. I mean he's mid-high 30s now. He's consistently been the least popular president for his time in his first term since polling began, and he's got so many scandals going around, people learning from their mistakes voting for him, etc. That it makes it really fucking hard. He's insanely unpopular, he's not particularly well liked by the media, he has a devoted base that's hard to really shake off of him which gives him a high floor, but he also hasn't passed anything that benefits them. They don't realize it yet, but he's done nothing major himself. He pretty much fucked over everyone with the tax cuts/eliminating the mandate, and that won't really be felt this year I don't think, but by 2020 it will be. Combine all that with how he every once in a while loses another point or so for things he says/does/doesn't do it's just really hard for him to win again. Don't get me wrong a lot of things could go wrong, he gets a boost from a terrorist attack, the economy suddenly surges up really high, the Democrats put up Hillary again, Putin hacks the fuck out of the elections in 2020 to give him the win but no one really does anything about it, etc. But he's got an undeniably harder path than he did in 2016. |
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Post by OutRosez on Feb 20, 2018 2:01:22 GMT
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Post by OutRosez on Feb 20, 2018 17:30:45 GMT
So Mueller charged Alex Van Der Zwaan with lying. Why does this matter?
Manafort's daughter works at the same law firm (Skaadan). Also this is yet another part of the Steele Dossier that's true as well. Alex is charged with deleting emails that Mueller wanted.He's also buddy buddy with Manafort and Gates (who people think has flipped). People are also expecting Alex to flip as well which adds pressure on Manafort to cop a plea deal as well.
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Post by OutRosez on Feb 23, 2018 18:42:48 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2018 14:25:59 GMT
As a casual who knows nothing about politics, what are the actual ramifications of all this? Am I naive for thinking it won't result in anything significant happening to Trump? And am I short-sighted for thinking that we shouldn't give a shit if the answer to my first question is "no"?
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Post by OutRosez on Feb 27, 2018 16:42:39 GMT
As a casual who knows nothing about politics, what are the actual ramifications of all this? Am I naive for thinking it won't result in anything significant happening to Trump? And am I short-sighted for thinking that we shouldn't give a shit if the answer to my first question is "no"? Depends on how bad it is and to what extent the polarization matters. Using Mormon (as a Republican who hates Trump) as an example. He doesn't give a fuck that Trump openly admitted to Obstruction of Justice on goddamned national television for unknown reasons and doesn't think that paid research is a valid reason for a warrant. If that belief is prevalent we're fucked as a people, a country, and a democracy and we can just hang it up now. What we do know is that at the very very least. Don Jr is fucked and gone because he 100% colluded because we saw the leaked emails. Jared is probably fucked because his finances are almost certainly linked to Russia at this point. Manafort, Page, etc are all pleading guilty OR being accused of several crimes for reasons. The question is whether or not Mueller can get everyone in the inner circle or if it stops just short at being just the kids. If people are still copping plea deals I think there's a very good chance they have something valuable to give up still. He's not gonna let people plea bargain unless he can help him make his cases against the Russians, Trump, and those that affected the elections. There's a lot of suspect things about what Republicans knew like allegedly the Republican hierarchy (Ryan-House McCarthy-second in commander effectively) believing but not sharing that Trump was being paid off and of course last week's revelation of Rohrabacher almost certainly being paid off, combined with McConnell as usual playing partisan politics not wanting to talk about Russian hacking weeks before the election with Obama so his party had something to gain. It's pretty clear to a certain extent that they're willing to go down with him. I used to think none of them would fall on the sword for him and he'd be swiftly impeached but now I think it comes down to 2.5 things. 1. Democrats taking back the House and at least control of the Senate.... and 1.5: The elections not being hacked enough to overpower the vote (there's no real solution here unless governors do something to stop it at this point because Trump and Congress isn't). 2. People. If it's really bad. Like as bad as everyone thinks it could be. Then every fucking person needs to get their ass out there and fucking protest. Every time so far the people have done something big Congress has listened over the last 13 months. We saved healthcare multiple times, we made sure some fucker didn't get a position he wanted in the administration, we got an independent counsel, and the EPA's science slaughtering hasn't been as bad as it could have been so far. If enough people act up the Senate Republicans will have to vote to impeach him, and most likely Pence, Ryan, etc. as being complicit. Force them to act no matter what happens. |
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Post by OutRosez on Feb 27, 2018 16:43:56 GMT
Solid thread on why today's Hope Hicks testimony might or might not matter in the long run.
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Post by bladefd on Feb 27, 2018 22:48:01 GMT
Solid thread on why today's Hope Hicks testimony might or might not matter in the long run. Does she look like she has aged like 10yrs since joining Trump administration?  idk, maybe just makeup or angle just looks that way  When she started:   Now:  |
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Post by OutRosez on Feb 28, 2018 0:12:31 GMT
Solid thread on why today's Hope Hicks testimony might or might not matter in the long run. Does she look like she has aged like 10yrs since joining Trump administration? idk, maybe just makeup or angle just looks that way When she started: Now: Everyone ages faster in the White House, but I think it's partially explained by her dying her hair. Then the Lewandowski scandal, and then this stuff. Lot of stress. Plus she's 29, so she's gonna start looking older now just because genetics anyway. |
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Post by OutRosez on Mar 8, 2018 1:38:58 GMT
So basically this guy is gonna be charged with a felony at some random point in time for lying, but there's something bigger here. This guy is a maybe not right hand of Pence's, but he's certainly very close to him. He was rumored but NOT confirmed at the time to be the guy in this letter the washington post published last year. This now blows that alibi and directly links Pence to being aware of the Russian collusion. The big difference is that him being actively aware and doing something to actually have done something with them is different, but now we know he at least was a part of it in some way, shape, or form. The next thing is Mueller linking him directly to the events somehow. |
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Post by bladefd on Mar 13, 2018 0:08:49 GMT
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Post by bladefd on Mar 29, 2018 21:49:33 GMT
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Post by OutRosez on Apr 3, 2018 16:39:35 GMT
So Mueller charged Alex Van Der Zwaan with lying. Why does this matter? Manafort's daughter works at the same law firm (Skaadan). Also this is yet another part of the Steele Dossier that's true as well. Alex is charged with deleting emails that Mueller wanted.He's also buddy buddy with Manafort and Gates (who people think has flipped). People are also expecting Alex to flip as well which adds pressure on Manafort to cop a plea deal as well. He's in jail for a month now for lying, and he also copped a plea deal. So many plea deals! |
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Post by OutRosez on Apr 3, 2018 16:42:31 GMT
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Post by OutRosez on Apr 11, 2018 7:27:51 GMT
Lindsey Graham and more weirdly: Thom Tillis (R-NC) are working with Booker and other dems to pressure Chuck Grassley and then the Senate to pass a law to protect MuellerI think Trump is gonna try and fire Mueller. He's doing all his feelers stuff where he casually mentions it in press briefings, Sarah Sanders saying he has the power to, the media smear campaign that he's been running the last few weeks, etc. It's all adding up. The big two questions are: when? and the more frightening question: what will Republicans do? There's almost a near certainty that the house would never pass that bill. So it would probably pass the Senate for no reason, but it is at least important to do so. There's some interesting quirks though. Trump can't fire Mueller directly. He's got to fire Rosenstein and then go down the line finding someone willing to fire Mueller from his investigation (Nixon's Saturday Night Massacre basically). After that happens, all the evidence that hasn't been submitted to the court system is basically done for. BUT Mueller still has sealed indictments that he or someone else can unseal at anytime. Those were submitted months ago when he first started indicting people and getting them to cop plea deals. Presumably one of the ones left is for Trump.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2018 13:59:29 GMT
I may have asked this before but if Trump is indeed guilty of whatever he's being accused of / investigated for what are the possible ramifications and how likely are they? Can he be removed from office?
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Post by bladefd on Apr 11, 2018 20:20:25 GMT
I may have asked this before but if Trump is indeed guilty of whatever he's being accused of / investigated for what are the possible ramifications and how likely are they? Can he be removed from office?  , he can be removed but Republicans still have the majority in House and Senate.. House is where impeachment charges would have to be brought up, and quite frankly I have a hard time seeing them brought up in today's partisan extremity. The exception would be if Mueller can establish something extreme like mob ties or direct link between Trump and Russian government.. I don't think obstruction of justice alone would be enough for Republicans to turn on Trump. |
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Post by OutRosez on Jul 13, 2018 19:11:58 GMT
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Post by OutRosez on Jul 19, 2018 11:01:11 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2018 22:42:50 GMT
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Post by tsk on Jul 27, 2018 1:05:40 GMT
sorry can't, also wrong thread |
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Post by OutRosez on Sept 14, 2018 16:05:46 GMT
Manafort finally copped a plea dealThis should be the biggest turning point of the investigation. For a lot of reasons. First, we're gonna finally learn exactly what happened in the room where they met with the Russians in July 2016. A meeting even Bannon called treasonousAfter which of course the campaign suddenly became intensely pro-Russia, even more so than when Manafort initially became the head of the campaign. Which is why one of the charges he pleaded too was involved with the campaign Personally, I think Mueller is using Manafort as a pardon trap for trump. Manafort is the last non-Trump to charge from the campaign (Pence aside). From here on, every single charge, every investigation, every single witness, and plea deal, is geared towards them. There's no one else left higher on the food chain. Manafort might not know everything about what happened with Putin, but at the very least he knows something important which is why Mueller spent so much time focusing on getting him to flip. And of course with Mike Flynn still corroborating and giving up details Mueller has at least two very important people closely connected to the inner workings of the trump family. Normally I speculate on what happens next, but what happens next is pretty obvious: either trump, his kids, or less likely Pence is next up on deck for charges.
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Post by bladefd on Sept 15, 2018 5:34:31 GMT
OutRosez. Hai friend o/ Don't forget Roger Stone too. I bet you Stone knows some backdoor dealings concerning Trump and was probably involved himself. Stone has been trying so hard to resist Mueller for the past year or so. Don't be surprised if Julian Assange knows something as well concerning Russian involvement and cut a deal with Mueller. Mueller will probably subpoena Stone, Don jr, and Kushner sooner or later. That's when all hell will break loose. I truly am wondering what Trump will do when his family gets subpoenaed. We all know he will blow a gasket, but how far will he go? Imagine if he tweets "Rosenstein and Mueller, you are FIRED" lol. I really don't know what happens in such a standoff because it has never happened before.
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Post by OutRosez on Sept 16, 2018 2:38:59 GMT
OutRosez . Hai friend o/ Don't forget Roger Stone too. I bet you Stone knows some backdoor dealings concerning Trump and was probably involved himself. Stone has been trying so hard to resist Mueller for the past year or so. Don't be surprised if Julian Assange knows something as well concerning Russian involvement and cut a deal with Mueller. Mueller will probably subpoena Stone, Don jr, and Kushner sooner or later. That's when all hell will break loose. I truly am wondering what Trump will do when his family gets subpoenaed. We all know he will blow a gasket, but how far will he go? Imagine if he tweets "Rosenstein and Mueller, you are FIRED" lol. I really don't know what happens in such a standoff because it has never happened before. I'm not entirely sure Stone is guilty of something. It's weird because it really seems like he has just looking at the case, how heavily involved in Trump world he was/is, his political history, his aids/associates are supposedly testifying for Mueller, and by all accounts he seems to think he's going down and admits to it. But Mueller has only done two pretty separate threads. The first thread is the obvious one that's eventually gonna lead up to Trump, but the other one is the hackers and what roles they've played in previous elections. Stone shouldn't really fit into the second unless he was some kind of liasion to the the Russian hackers and Americans who helped them. But so far it doesn't really seem that way. Which gets back to the first thread, and so far nothing that anyone has admitted to, been charged with, or vaguely referenced is in direct connection with him. I think given his background in oppo research it's possible that he's connected with guccifer 2.0 and the hacking of the DNC somehow, but he wasn't at the Trump tower meeting, he wasn't at the campaign rally where trump told the Russians to hack, and his travel hasn't been linked to any of the Russian/Trump people meet ups. I'm not saying he's innocent of stuff, just that he's disconnected enough to maybe only being guilty by association. Or Mueller is just waiting to indict him until the right time (let's not forget he's still got some sealed indictments just chilling in the court system still), and he'll go down at a later date and time because Mueller already has him on something and there's no point in charging him with anything now because he doesn't know anything on anyone higher up the ladder that either A. benefits Mueller or much more likely imo, B. he doesn't know anything Mueller couldn't get or hasn't gotten from someone else. If the latter is true, I think it's something that has to do with Mike Flynn, and Flynn is still helping out Mueller and verifying shit and getting other people to verify and so Stone isn't needed. |
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Post by bladefd on Sept 16, 2018 6:04:29 GMT
OutRosez . Hai friend o/ Don't forget Roger Stone too. I bet you Stone knows some backdoor dealings concerning Trump and was probably involved himself. Stone has been trying so hard to resist Mueller for the past year or so. Don't be surprised if Julian Assange knows something as well concerning Russian involvement and cut a deal with Mueller. Mueller will probably subpoena Stone, Don jr, and Kushner sooner or later. That's when all hell will break loose. I truly am wondering what Trump will do when his family gets subpoenaed. We all know he will blow a gasket, but how far will he go? Imagine if he tweets "Rosenstein and Mueller, you are FIRED" lol. I really don't know what happens in such a standoff because it has never happened before. I'm not entirely sure Stone is guilty of something. It's weird because it really seems like he has just looking at the case, how heavily involved in Trump world he was/is, his political history, his aids/associates are supposedly testifying for Mueller, and by all accounts he seems to think he's going down and admits to it. But Mueller has only done two pretty separate threads. The first thread is the obvious one that's eventually gonna lead up to Trump, but the other one is the hackers and what roles they've played in previous elections. Stone shouldn't really fit into the second unless he was some kind of liasion to the the Russian hackers and Americans who helped them. But so far it doesn't really seem that way. Which gets back to the first thread, and so far nothing that anyone has admitted to, been charged with, or vaguely referenced is in direct connection with him. I think given his background in oppo research it's possible that he's connected with guccifer 2.0 and the hacking of the DNC somehow, but he wasn't at the Trump tower meeting, he wasn't at the campaign rally where trump told the Russians to hack, and his travel hasn't been linked to any of the Russian/Trump people meet ups. I'm not saying he's innocent of stuff, just that he's disconnected enough to maybe only being guilty by association. Or Mueller is just waiting to indict him until the right time (let's not forget he's still got some sealed indictments just chilling in the court system still), and he'll go down at a later date and time because Mueller already has him on something and there's no point in charging him with anything now because he doesn't know anything on anyone higher up the ladder that either A. benefits Mueller or much more likely imo, B. he doesn't know anything Mueller couldn't get or hasn't gotten from someone else. If the latter is true, I think it's something that has to do with Mike Flynn, and Flynn is still helping out Mueller and verifying shit and getting other people to verify and so Stone isn't needed. The reason why I bring up Stone is because I have a feeling Mueller has some money laundering and illegal unreported income charges coming against Trump. I wouldn't be surprised at all if there was some Russian mafia involvement somewhere in there too going back a couple decades. If there is high level money laundering involved, I would think that Stone would have some knowledge of that considering how close Trump and Stone have been over almost the last 2 decades. This is also why I feel Don jr and Kushner have a very good chance of getting subpoenas. Mueller's investigation involves much more than simply Russian election interference based on the lawyers and investigators he has on his team. Several of them specialize in money laundering. I strongly suspect this investigation goes much deeper than simply Russian government involvement or DNC hacking. That might just brush the surface. Special Counsel as you know has the power to let the investigation go wherever the evidence takes them. |
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Post by OutRosez on Sept 16, 2018 18:50:39 GMT
I'm not entirely sure Stone is guilty of something. It's weird because it really seems like he has just looking at the case, how heavily involved in Trump world he was/is, his political history, his aids/associates are supposedly testifying for Mueller, and by all accounts he seems to think he's going down and admits to it. But Mueller has only done two pretty separate threads. The first thread is the obvious one that's eventually gonna lead up to Trump, but the other one is the hackers and what roles they've played in previous elections. Stone shouldn't really fit into the second unless he was some kind of liasion to the the Russian hackers and Americans who helped them. But so far it doesn't really seem that way. Which gets back to the first thread, and so far nothing that anyone has admitted to, been charged with, or vaguely referenced is in direct connection with him. I think given his background in oppo research it's possible that he's connected with guccifer 2.0 and the hacking of the DNC somehow, but he wasn't at the Trump tower meeting, he wasn't at the campaign rally where trump told the Russians to hack, and his travel hasn't been linked to any of the Russian/Trump people meet ups. I'm not saying he's innocent of stuff, just that he's disconnected enough to maybe only being guilty by association. Or Mueller is just waiting to indict him until the right time (let's not forget he's still got some sealed indictments just chilling in the court system still), and he'll go down at a later date and time because Mueller already has him on something and there's no point in charging him with anything now because he doesn't know anything on anyone higher up the ladder that either A. benefits Mueller or much more likely imo, B. he doesn't know anything Mueller couldn't get or hasn't gotten from someone else. If the latter is true, I think it's something that has to do with Mike Flynn, and Flynn is still helping out Mueller and verifying shit and getting other people to verify and so Stone isn't needed. The reason why I bring up Stone is because I have a feeling Mueller has some money laundering and illegal unreported income charges coming against Trump. I wouldn't be surprised at all if there was some Russian mafia involvement somewhere in there too going back a couple decades. If there is high level money laundering involved, I would think that Stone would have some knowledge of that considering how close Trump and Stone have been over almost the last 2 decades. This is also why I feel Don jr and Kushner have a very good chance of getting subpoenas. Mueller's investigation involves much more than simply Russian election interference based on the lawyers and investigators he has on his team. Several of them specialize in money laundering. I strongly suspect this investigation goes much deeper than simply Russian government involvement or DNC hacking. That might just brush the surface. Special Counsel as you know has the power to let the investigation go wherever the evidence takes them. I can see that playing a part in it, but so far at least, Mueller has delegated the financial stuff (that connects to Trump) to the Southern District of New York attorney's office (all the cohen charges). I do think that the Russian stuff goes back a bit though. Like if he finds shit in the 90s, I wouldn't be surprised that that's how this started and then for whatever reason, Putin decided to make him a pawn again sometime around 2012-ish, when Trump was first seriously considering running. I don't think Jr and Kushner will get subpoenea'd they're as guilty as anyone else in the family is. Now I do think we could wind up that one of the guys betrays him because they don't want the punishment for treason. Kushner is pretty smart but I think he's too loyal to everyone there. Eric is a dumbass, and for my money, I'd bet it's Jr that does it. It'd be the perfect season finale for the show. The failure son who couldn't live up to his father's name or expectations, finally gets revenge after decades of bullying from his father. The perfect story imo. |
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Post by OutRosez on Sept 17, 2018 21:08:42 GMT
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Post by bladefd on Sept 24, 2018 20:45:34 GMT
Rosenstein may be getting fired Thursday when he meets Trump at White House.
Trump's lawyers Sekulow and Giuliani both said today that if Rosenstein is fired or resigns, they will be calling for a timeout to Mueller investigation and a second special prosecutor to look into Mueller probe.
This could very well be an equivalent to a Saturday Night massacre event about to unfold this week. They are also meeting on same day as Kavanaugh/Ford hearings so it could definitely be a distraction too in order to distract from Kavanaugh.
Rosenstein should say "I will not resign. You will have to fire me."
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, he can be removed but Republicans still have the majority in House and Senate.. House is where impeachment charges would have to be brought up, and quite frankly I have a hard time seeing them brought up in today's partisan extremity.
