|
Post by R.I.P. uncle Teddy on Dec 26, 2017 0:54:33 GMT
Single payer does not make healthcare magically cheaper unless you ration treatment heavily, and medicare/aid/SS all need to be cut/reworked to be sustainable. It does take the middleman in insurance companies out though. Single-payer would lead to direct negotiation with big pharma to bring down the cost, elimination of the middleman of thousands of insurance companies (and administrative costs), equalize costs for medicine/care across the board (right now it varies based on insurance rather than procedure/medicine/location), and everyone contributes into it based on income just like medicare currently. At the same time you eliminate medicare/medicaid altogether. In the end, it would lead to savings and healthcare for everyone. Thats not how it would work blade.
|
|
|
|
Post by bladefd on Dec 26, 2017 1:12:10 GMT
It does take the middleman in insurance companies out though. Single-payer would lead to direct negotiation with big pharma to bring down the cost, elimination of the middleman of thousands of insurance companies (and administrative costs), equalize costs for medicine/care across the board (right now it varies based on insurance rather than procedure/medicine/location), and everyone contributes into it based on income just like medicare currently. At the same time you eliminate medicare/medicaid altogether. In the end, it would lead to savings and healthcare for everyone. Thats not how it would work blade. Then enlighten me. Show me where I'm wrong about single-payer.
|
|
|
|
Post by R.I.P. uncle Teddy on Dec 28, 2017 23:16:09 GMT
Thats not how it would work blade. Then enlighten me. Show me where I'm wrong about single-payer. The way nations cut costs of healthcare are either 1-You cut the amount of care people get via wait times and limit what drugs you are willing to give consumers ala canada and the UK 2-You set prices, making certain things unprofitable, make drug research impossible, and give doctors, nurses, and others much less pay (Not possible for doctors without a completely new medical school and malpractice insurance system)
|
|
|
|
Post by bladefd on Dec 29, 2017 8:31:41 GMT
Then enlighten me. Show me where I'm wrong about single-payer. The way nations cut costs of healthcare are either 1-You cut the amount of care people get via wait times and limit what drugs you are willing to give consumers ala canada and the UK 2-You set prices, making certain things unprofitable, make drug research impossible, and give doctors, nurses, and others much less pay (Not possible for doctors without a completely new medical school and malpractice insurance system) But you do agree that insurance companies acting as middlemen jacks up prices further? Why do we even need a middleman? Is it also not reasonable to look towards Medicare for answers? Medicare has the benefit of not being run by a middleman of insurance companies dictating the terms, and medicare also negotiates costs directly with big pharma. Medicare also equalizes the cost of services so they pay the same amount for a procedure regardless of hospital or doctor. Medicare has been very successful in cutting costs unlike private insurances for the reasons I mentioned above. Administrative paperwork could also be slashed with much fewer insurance companies acting as middlemen. As for comparison to Healthcare ib other nations.. Tbh I am not willing to compare it to any other nation or system except United States and the system we have today. I think Medicare is a better comparison to make than the Healthcare setup of other countries. Medicare is hybrid in the sense that it is publicly funded through taxes but healthcare delivery is provided by private contractors, who don't actually dictate the terms. I don't think that Healthcare in other countries is ran like medicare because they are public from start to finish, including Healthcare delivery.. Correct me if I am wrong but that's very different from medicare here in USA.
|
|
|
|
Post by R.I.P. uncle Teddy on Jan 2, 2018 22:53:06 GMT
The way nations cut costs of healthcare are either 1-You cut the amount of care people get via wait times and limit what drugs you are willing to give consumers ala canada and the UK 2-You set prices, making certain things unprofitable, make drug research impossible, and give doctors, nurses, and others much less pay (Not possible for doctors without a completely new medical school and malpractice insurance system) But you do agree that insurance companies acting as middlemen jacks up prices further? Why do we even need a middleman? No, things are not that simple. Insurance is in essence designed to do the opposite.
|
|
|
|
Post by R.I.P. uncle Teddy on Jan 2, 2018 22:54:08 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by bladefd on Jan 3, 2018 0:00:18 GMT
But you do agree that insurance companies acting as middlemen jacks up prices further? Why do we even need a middleman? No, things are not that simple. Insurance is in essence designed to do the opposite. But it does the exact opposite: raise costs for everyone. Results are only thing that matters. What's your idea of healthcare for America?
|
|
|
|
Post by R.I.P. uncle Teddy on Jan 3, 2018 1:24:59 GMT
No, things are not that simple. Insurance is in essence designed to do the opposite. But it does the exact opposite: raise costs for everyone. Results are only thing that matters. What's your idea of healthcare for America? It doesn't. That's why healthcare is expensive. It is designed to make expensive things cheap, therefor obfuscating the real cost, and making people buy more than they need. Its still "cheap" for the consumer because they don't see direct cost. If I were to have complete control I'd get rid of everything except medicaid (and maybe make it harder to get to unless you're a child), make a new universal catastrophic coverage with a 10k deductible (or something very high) and then have everything else paid for by individuals-whether that is out of pocket, or through insurance is irrelevant. It will lower costs through real market forces where people have to make real trade offs instead of through government subsidization and opaque pricing methods. No stupid mandates, no multi-tiered system, and no employer insurance.
|
|
|
|
Post by R.I.P. uncle Teddy on Jan 3, 2018 1:26:51 GMT
bladefd OutRosez Aren't you guys hyped that the TPP is back? WOW MORE WEALTH LESS INTERNATIONAL POVERTY LESS POPULISM MORE HUMAN PROGRESS MORE ANGRY BERNIE BROS AND TRUMPBOIS WHATS NOT TO LIKE???
|
|
|
|
Post by OutRosez on Jan 3, 2018 1:29:05 GMT
bladefd OutRosez Aren't you guys hyped that the TPP is back? WOW MORE WEALTH LESS INTERNATIONAL POVERTY LESS POPULISM MORE HUMAN PROGRESS MORE ANGRY BERNIE BROS AND TRUMPBOIS WHATS NOT TO LIKE??? Amazing every word of what you just said is wrong.
|
|
|
|
Post by R.I.P. uncle Teddy on Jan 3, 2018 1:32:09 GMT
bladefd OutRosez Aren't you guys hyped that the TPP is back? WOW MORE WEALTH LESS INTERNATIONAL POVERTY LESS POPULISM MORE HUMAN PROGRESS MORE ANGRY BERNIE BROS AND TRUMPBOIS WHATS NOT TO LIKE??? Amazing every word of what you just said is wrong. tfw memethew is in denial because he likes protectionism and wants Vietnam to be poor.
|
|
|
|
Post by bladefd on Jan 3, 2018 2:20:53 GMT
But it does the exact opposite: raise costs for everyone. Results are only thing that matters. What's your idea of healthcare for America? It doesn't. That's why healthcare is expensive. It is designed to make expensive things cheap, therefor obfuscating the real cost, and making people buy more than they need. Its still "cheap" for the consumer because they don't see direct cost. If I were to have complete control I'd get rid of everything except medicaid (and maybe make it harder to get to unless you're a child), make a new universal catastrophic coverage with a 10k deductible (or something very high) and then have everything else paid for by individuals-whether that is out of pocket, or through insurance is irrelevant. It will lower costs through real market forces where people have to make real trade offs instead of through government subsidization and opaque pricing methods. No stupid mandates, no multi-tiered system, and no employer insurance. But that's not why premiums and insurance costs are currently so expensive. The problem is runaway big pharma lobbying over the decades driving up costs for everything. There is lots of that and lots of fraud all around including within medicare/medicaid, private insurances, pharma side and even on the side of hospitals. i.e. Simplest example I can give is a piece of bag with saline water in it - hospitals charge insurance between $10 and hundreds. Saline water costs pennies and the plastic bag container a dollar max in bulk. Small stuff like this adds up across the nation over time into insane costs for the consumer. Medical costs have been going up since lord knows when - long before ACA came along and government subsidization build up. Rising premiums isn't a new problem emanating in 2010s or 2000s. We can look back to 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s for increasing premiums year after year under the very system you propose with very limited government subsidization and pricing methods - www.thebalance.com/causes-of-rising-healthcare-costs-4064878 . We had reforms through the years but none of them limited or slowed down the costs (ACA kind of did but not much to solve the issue). Who writes those reforms? Politicians from both sides of the aisle in the pockets of big pharma lobbyists. Rising illnesses like diabetes and heart disease. Malnutrition, obesity, smoking, and expensive medicine for treating these illnesses forces some to avoid meds, making things worse for them. My dad has both diabetes and heart disease - I know the medicines are very expensive. My dad thinks of it as $5,000 less in salary per year but that doesn't even include the cost of premium monthly he pays half and his employer pays half or even the insane deducible - he is only thinking of co-pay there. Each year, he easily pays 12k for premiums, his company pays 12k, he pays 5k for copay for medicine/doctor visit copay, his deducible is 2k. Easily 30k a year altogether for family health coverage between the 4 (I'm in separate ACA plan). Huge issue that something needs to be done. An extensive study or something funded by the feds. Otherwise we are going to drown in healthcare costs. Or lower/middle class people will get sicker and sicker as they can't afford meds and doctors/procedures/tests.
|
|
|
|
Post by bladefd on Jan 3, 2018 22:50:20 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by bladefd on Jan 3, 2018 23:57:25 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by R.I.P. uncle Teddy on Jan 4, 2018 17:09:32 GMT
Even if that were theoretically true (its not for the most part) all that means is that there are no ongoing market forces....which is what my plan would implement...
|
|
|
|
Post by bladefd on Jan 4, 2018 20:55:29 GMT
Even if that were theoretically true (its not for the most part) all that means is that there are no ongoing market forces....which is what my plan would implement... We had the very system you propose (limited government subsidizations and mostly out of pocket) long before Obama or Bush came along, yet premiums were still increasing year after year. Lets take a look at these golden days of the 60s that Conservatives tout often: The last point above is true too that I didn't think about. There were fewer medications and fewer tests that could be done. Today these tests and procedures are expensive to do. Look at that.. People skipped going to the hospital for reasons nobody would nowadays simply because it was too expensive out of pocket. Long before medicare/medicaid and government subsidies. I know what you will say: "But it's only 1 survey! Irrelevant! We Republicans and Trump can do things much better today because we only care about the people." Right?? Republicans only care about the people - Trump is a white collar guy who worked on the streets before working his way to billionaire class with hard physical labor.  Or perhaps wait wait, those surveys are made up FAEK NEWS or people lied on them. A page right out of the Donald's book.
|
|
|
|
Post by R.I.P. uncle Teddy on Jan 5, 2018 1:37:30 GMT
No we didn't, and that also isn't what I proposed. I proposed pretty significant welfare programs, but different ones than there are currently and ones which would maximize market forces and minimize costs (especially for poor consumers)
What we have now is a "fuck healthy people system" and a "make people pay for shit they don't need" system
|
|
|
|
Post by bladefd on Jan 5, 2018 7:52:40 GMT
No we didn't, and that also isn't what I proposed. -Read the article I cited. We had a system of very limited government subsidizations and mostly out of pocket medical system 50 years before Obama pushed for ACA. Magnax, you said you would keep medicaid but didn't you say you would slash subsidies and make people pay out of pocket to bring down the costs? Insurances existed in 1960s, but they covered very little with most costs being paid for out of pocket. People were skipping doctor visits for some life-threatening conditions like chest pains because it was too expensive out of pocket. Seniors were going into their lifetime savings to pay for medical bills and medications, etc etc. That was the 60s. You said quote "If I were to have complete control I'd get rid of everything except medicaid (and maybe make it harder to get to unless you're a child), make a new universal catastrophic coverage with a 10k deductible (or something very high) and then have everything else paid for by individuals"... What about Medicare for seniors? I suppose you would consolidate Medicare and medicaid into one program then cut some folks out? Still doesn't solve the problem but alright, very well would save some money. As for your last point about healthy people getting fucked over and paying for stuff they don't need... That's the thing with insurances, whether it is health insurance, car insurance, life insurance, house insurance.. Everyone pays into a big pool and it gets pushed out to whoever uses it, sicker more than others. You already know that. I personally don't mind opening up the state borders for buying insurances across state lines so insurances compete on large scale. You know who doesn't want that? Insurance companies running monopolies on a state and/or vast regions. They lobby congress who in return resist altering that. That's one way to minimize costs but big pharma and insurance companies don't want that.
|
|
|
|
Post by R.I.P. uncle Teddy on Jan 5, 2018 16:33:47 GMT
bladefdIt said poor people had this problem-thats what medicaid is for. Medicaid and universal catastrophic coverage would be the only government health programs. Maybe 10k is too high of a deductible for catastrophic, but the exact number isn't the point. Its just a safety net at some level. Theoretically medicare would cover poor seniors. This is the case for car insurance-IE something everyone needs with universal uses With obamacare this is not the case because A-A 25 year old does not need insurance realistically if he/she is not covered already-the chances of recouping the 600+ a month costs are basically one in a million B-Obamacare requirements are not on a basis of "need" but are a mix of corporate and constituent handouts. You don't "need" half the shit in obamacare. You need catastrophic coverage if you're young, (which is very cheap) and probably a bit more if you're older.
|
|
|
|
Post by R.I.P. uncle Teddy on Jan 5, 2018 16:37:34 GMT
You make it sound like Id just throw people to their death. Catastrophic coverage+medicaid is a very significant welfare program, its just much more efficient and cheaper than our current system, which is basically trash post obamacare. You could convince me of a need for keeping the under 26 parents insurance thing, or the ban on pre-existing conditions, but with government taking care of costs about a certain threshold I doubt its really needed.
|
|
|
|
Post by R.I.P. uncle Teddy on Jan 5, 2018 16:51:19 GMT
Lets look at what the average person spends on healthcare in the US right now-about 8k a year. You could tackle the catastrophic deductible a few ways 1-Tack it right there, adjust it for inflation year to year, and leave it (probably the least ideal) 2-Keep it quite a bit lower-maybe 5k, and then have another 10k with a small copay (like...5%? Idk, I'm just making up these numbers to get an idea across) so that there is still an incentive for the patient to keep costs low.
I think this realistically could drop the average level of spending in the US, which would be a huge accomplishment. None of the other stuff people propose-Single Payer, expanding obamacare, etc. have a chance of doing that, but this could create a one time dip in costs. Of course, inflation of costs would likely continue at the similar (maybe a bit lower) rate. Higher costs in the US are first and foremost a symptom of higher consumption in the US (we have higher consumption of basically everything in the US vs almost any country) and thats just hard to stop without forcing people to accept less care.
|
|
|
|
Post by bladefd on Jan 5, 2018 21:24:47 GMT
R.I.P. uncle Teddy It's all dependent on whether the market would respond by dropping the cost of procedures/medical supplies/medicines and equalizing costs across the board. I personally have very little trust in big pharma. By equalizing costs, let me explain.. You can't have a bag of saline water for hydration cost $5 in one hospital and $500 in another. Or the exact same x-ray cost $100 at one location and $500 across town at another healthcare facility. That's a current issue. I don't know if the government can dictate those costs terms in the sort of system you propose. I guess it may be possible to call a bunch of places and ask for quotes, but often they purposely don't tell you on the phone. They will be like "oh, it depends on your insurance company and plan" or simply "We don't know until after the test." Essentially the bill costs are often figured out after the fact to see how much extra they can pocket. This is where a plan like Medicare single-payer differs because the terms are exactly negotiated and agreed upon ahead of time. Otherwise you will have facilities taking unnecessary extra 4-5 x-rays just to bump up how much they can make. Sometimes extra x-rays are necessary but it is very easy to exploit aka fraud - exploitation/fraud does take place very often even in well respected facilities. Another related but even bigger issue is varying costs in same facility depending on the insurance you have. Costs change depending on which insurance you have, which is shit. Imagine this.. You crash your car. You go to your mechanic garage and they ask you what car insurance company do you have.. Having allstate will cost $4000 to repair your car. Geico costs $5000 to repair your car. State Farm costs $8000 to repair your car. All for the exact same repair by exact same person at exact same facility in same area of town using same tools and same equipment. It doesn't work that way - they give you one quote regardless of insurance company you have. It is irrelevant how much insurance pays for it and how much you would pay as long as they get paid the quoted amount in the end. In same manner, all procedures should cost the same at same facility across all insurances -  each health insurance might reimburse different amounts but the remainder should be the patient's responsibility. I don't mind as much if costs varying a bit between 2 different facilities for same procedure/test, but this issue is worse. These are well established issues that drive up costs for everyone, especially the consumer.
|
|
|
|
Post by R.I.P. uncle Teddy on Jan 6, 2018 19:24:16 GMT
R.I.P. uncle Teddy It's all dependent on whether the market would respond by dropping the cost of procedures/medical supplies/medicines and equalizing costs across the board. I personally have very little trust in big pharma. By equalizing costs, let me explain.. You can't have a bag of saline water for hydration cost $5 in one hospital and $500 in another. Or the exact same x-ray cost $100 at one location and $500 across town at another healthcare facility. That's a current issue. I don't know if the government can dictate those costs terms in the sort of system you propose. I guess it may be possible to call a bunch of places and ask for quotes, but often they purposely don't tell you on the phone. They will be like "oh, it depends on your insurance company and plan" or simply "We don't know until after the test." Essentially the bill costs are often figured out after the fact to see how much extra they can pocket. This is where a plan like Medicare single-payer differs because the terms are exactly negotiated and agreed upon ahead of time. Otherwise you will have facilities taking unnecessary extra 4-5 x-rays just to bump up how much they can make. Sometimes extra x-rays are necessary but it is very easy to exploit aka fraud - exploitation/fraud does take place very often even in well respected facilities. Another related but even bigger issue is varying costs in same facility depending on the insurance you have. Costs change depending on which insurance you have, which is shit. Imagine this.. You crash your car. You go to your mechanic garage and they ask you what car insurance company do you have.. Having allstate will cost $4000 to repair your car. Geico costs $5000 to repair your car. State Farm costs $8000 to repair your car. All for the exact same repair by exact same person at exact same facility in same area of town using same tools and same equipment. It doesn't work that way - they give you one quote regardless of insurance company you have. It is irrelevant how much insurance pays for it and how much you would pay as long as they get paid the quoted amount in the end. In same manner, all procedures should cost the same at same facility across all insurances -  each health insurance might reimburse different amounts but the remainder should be the patient's responsibility. I don't mind as much if costs varying a bit between 2 different facilities for same procedure/test, but this issue is worse. These are well established issues that drive up costs for everyone, especially the consumer. Big pharma has 0 say in the prices in a competitive market unless theyre given patents, which are ony ahort term (20 years?)
|
|
|
|
Post by bladefd on Jan 6, 2018 20:44:40 GMT
R.I.P. uncle Teddy It's all dependent on whether the market would respond by dropping the cost of procedures/medical supplies/medicines and equalizing costs across the board. I personally have very little trust in big pharma. By equalizing costs, let me explain.. You can't have a bag of saline water for hydration cost $5 in one hospital and $500 in another. Or the exact same x-ray cost $100 at one location and $500 across town at another healthcare facility. That's a current issue. I don't know if the government can dictate those costs terms in the sort of system you propose. I guess it may be possible to call a bunch of places and ask for quotes, but often they purposely don't tell you on the phone. They will be like "oh, it depends on your insurance company and plan" or simply "We don't know until after the test." Essentially the bill costs are often figured out after the fact to see how much extra they can pocket. This is where a plan like Medicare single-payer differs because the terms are exactly negotiated and agreed upon ahead of time. Otherwise you will have facilities taking unnecessary extra 4-5 x-rays just to bump up how much they can make. Sometimes extra x-rays are necessary but it is very easy to exploit aka fraud - exploitation/fraud does take place very often even in well respected facilities. Another related but even bigger issue is varying costs in same facility depending on the insurance you have. Costs change depending on which insurance you have, which is shit. Imagine this.. You crash your car. You go to your mechanic garage and they ask you what car insurance company do you have.. Having allstate will cost $4000 to repair your car. Geico costs $5000 to repair your car. State Farm costs $8000 to repair your car. All for the exact same repair by exact same person at exact same facility in same area of town using same tools and same equipment. It doesn't work that way - they give you one quote regardless of insurance company you have. It is irrelevant how much insurance pays for it and how much you would pay as long as they get paid the quoted amount in the end. In same manner, all procedures should cost the same at same facility across all insurances -  each health insurance might reimburse different amounts but the remainder should be the patient's responsibility. I don't mind as much if costs varying a bit between 2 different facilities for same procedure/test, but this issue is worse. These are well established issues that drive up costs for everyone, especially the consumer. Big pharma has 0 say in the prices in a competitive market unless theyre given patents, which are ony ahort term (20 years?) Lobbying is huge in determining pricing and policy from government perspective, which also has a direct impact on pricing. I believe healthcare is the #1 most lobbied sector out there with most of it coming from big pharma. Lobbying is what determines policy in this country.
|
|
|
|
Post by R.I.P. uncle Teddy on Jan 10, 2018 4:31:38 GMT
Big pharma has 0 say in the prices in a competitive market unless theyre given patents, which are ony ahort term (20 years?) Lobbying is huge in determining pricing and policy from government perspective, which also has a direct impact on pricing. I believe healthcare is the #1 most lobbied sector out there with most of it coming from big pharma. Lobbying is what determines policy in this country. Its not and a free market would make lobbying irrelevant, so I think my point has completely gone over your head.
|
|
|
|
Post by bladefd on Jan 10, 2018 7:42:20 GMT
Lobbying is huge in determining pricing and policy from government perspective, which also has a direct impact on pricing. I believe healthcare is the #1 most lobbied sector out there with most of it coming from big pharma. Lobbying is what determines policy in this country. Its not and a free market would make lobbying irrelevant, so I think my point has completely gone over your head. You put too much trust into corporations - big pharma in this case - and put too much blame on government being the cause for out of control pricing. It started as a typical argument where the "conservative" blames the government and "liberal" blames the corporations. I openly admitted that government had a hand in pricing getting out of hand as well, but I don't see you laying even a piece of the blame at the feet of corporations. You completely glazed over the fact that big pharma is ultimately in it to bolster their bottom lines at the cost of the quality of health care. That's a fact. Arguing against that basic fact is disingenuous and incomplete.
|
|
|
|
Post by R.I.P. uncle Teddy on Jan 10, 2018 20:15:45 GMT
"Big pharma" has no control over the markets without the government. If they are price fixing (they arent to a large extent) its all on the government. They have no power to do so without government intervention or a cartel like OPEC-which they dont have.
|
|
|
|
Post by bladefd on Jan 10, 2018 20:50:07 GMT
"Big pharma" has no control over the markets without the government. If they are price fixing (they arent to a large extent) its all on the government. They have no power to do so without government intervention or a cartel like OPEC-which they dont have. I hope you are not trying to tell me big pharma doesn't set the prices for drugs? Stop it. With the exception of medicare/medicaid, the feds don't negotiate costs for various things including prescription drugs. That's a fact. The only ultimate goal of these folks at big pharma is to maximize profit. Period. That's a fact.
|
|
|
|
Post by OutRosez on Jan 10, 2018 20:59:22 GMT
Another couple house Republicans retiring bringing the total up to 29 leaving one way or another. Issa is a big one, that's a seat the Dems really wanted anyway and had already raised a shit ton (winning all the Cali seats basically gives the House) www.cnn.com/2017/11/10/politics/house-retirement-tracker/index.htmlEven if you just assume the +10 dems margin is what it winds up being in November, which is probably unlikely because it could shift either way but its probably shifting more democrat leaning, that's a huge boon and would give them around 100 seats. That's an untenable number and even with gerrymandering by force and by choice, that's a huge huge advantage. An even bigger but under the radar development thanks to Feinstein's release of the testimony yesterday: www.nytimes.com/2018/01/09/us/north-carolina-gerrymander.html?_r=0 North Carolina's map got struck down by the court system which should free them up in time for the 2018 election to give dems a better chance there, and for more fair elections regardless.First time in history the Federal government has done that, a bigger decision will be about the Wisconsin map that the Supreme Court is looking at now which should be decided by May.
|
|
|
|
Post by R.I.P. uncle Teddy on Jan 11, 2018 19:09:28 GMT
"Big pharma" has no control over the markets without the government. If they are price fixing (they arent to a large extent) its all on the government. They have no power to do so without government intervention or a cartel like OPEC-which they dont have. I hope you are not trying to tell me big pharma doesn't set the prices for drugs? Stop it. With the exception of medicare/medicaid, the feds don't negotiate costs for various things including prescription drugs. That's a fact. The only ultimate goal of these folks at big pharma is to maximize profit. Period. That's a fact. You have absolutely no uderstanding of markets if you think companies just set prices. At least read this shit en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demandAnd if you post more shit about price negotiation or big pharma price setting you havent understood it, so go back and read it again. The only time this model doesnt apply to health markets for drugs are government intervention and market failures. The latter has no application here.
|
|
|