|
|
Post by R.I.P. uncle Teddy on Mar 17, 2016 17:02:20 GMT
The whole point of the two party system is so that you dont get kooks like trump and sanders in the white house. You have to moderate yourself and build a coalition. Its much better than giving anyone who can get 5% of the vote a platform to promote their propaganda. I dont want a socialist and fascist party in congress tyvm. why not give them ONE seat? what's wrong with that? you have to represent the people it increases the acceptance of the parliament and institutions. meanwhile in America, many people just hate the government as a whole and lol at the first sentence Because one seat is a soapbox. You already have the crazies in congress, but they get drowned out and pulled to the center by their party. The only place they have left to vocalize their idiocy is primaries and their local elections. Secondly, as an extension of my first point, its a way for these fringe parties to gain steam. I mean, you see it all over europe. Theyve always had socialists, but now fascism is coming back on the back of a minority of voters and because of that their influence is 20% of the population (or whatever) instead of whatever state theyre a majority in. I dont see a way that improves governance. I see a lot of ways it makes it worse-less effective, more gridlocked, a chance for another situation like the Nazi party. I mean, this is the system Nazis legally became the leadership of Germany and its still basically just as possible today, but people are advocating for it still 80 years later? Wtf? |
|
|
|
|
Post by R.I.P. uncle Teddy on Mar 17, 2016 17:03:29 GMT
The parties could easily be usurped if they continue on their current path. Easily? I think you're drastically underestimating ho much money and power it would take to have an overhaul of the twoparty system. Its been show time and again you dont need the most money to win these elections. How many times did a tea party candidate oust an established republican? |
|
|
|
|
Post by Don Rumata on Mar 17, 2016 17:14:24 GMT
why not give them ONE seat? what's wrong with that? you have to represent the people it increases the acceptance of the parliament and institutions. meanwhile in America, many people just hate the government as a whole and lol at the first sentence Because one seat is a soapbox. You already have the crazies in congress, but they get drowned out and pulled to the center by their party. The only place they have left to vocalize their idiocy is primaries and their local elections. Secondly, as an extension of my first point, its a way for these fringe parties to gain steam. I mean, you see it all over europe. Theyve always had socialists, but now fascism is coming back on the back of a minority of voters and because of that their influence is 20% of the population (or whatever) instead of whatever state theyre a majority in. I dont see a way that improves governance. I see a lot of ways it makes it worse-less effective, more gridlocked, a chance for another situation like the Nazi party. I mean, this is the system Nazis legally became the leadership of Germany and its still basically just as possible today, but people are advocating for it still 80 years later? Wtf? Nazi comparison -> you lost the debate Don: 1 magnax: 0 |
|
|
|
|
Post by R.I.P. uncle Teddy on Mar 17, 2016 17:20:09 GMT
Because one seat is a soapbox. You already have the crazies in congress, but they get drowned out and pulled to the center by their party. The only place they have left to vocalize their idiocy is primaries and their local elections. Secondly, as an extension of my first point, its a way for these fringe parties to gain steam. I mean, you see it all over europe. Theyve always had socialists, but now fascism is coming back on the back of a minority of voters and because of that their influence is 20% of the population (or whatever) instead of whatever state theyre a majority in. I dont see a way that improves governance. I see a lot of ways it makes it worse-less effective, more gridlocked, a chance for another situation like the Nazi party. I mean, this is the system Nazis legally became the leadership of Germany and its still basically just as possible today, but people are advocating for it still 80 years later? Wtf? Nazi comparison -> you lost the debate Don: 1 magnax: 0 Its a historical fact. Hitler was a majority leader because he was the largest minority. |
|
|
Deleted
•
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2016 17:24:43 GMT
In Sweden we have 349 seats shared by every party with over 4% votes. So you skip mostly the crazies and get serious parties (green party and left party excluded, but both at 4-6%) so in reality they don't get a lot of power.
I just thing the two party system is crazy. You have two parties with more or less the same view.
|
|
|
|
|
Post by Don Rumata on Mar 17, 2016 17:30:21 GMT
Nazi comparison -> you lost the debate Don: 1 magnax: 0 Its a historical fact. Hitler was a majority leader because he was the largest minority. it fact but not a good argument on many levels you act like Germany having multiple parties caused the Nazi takeover as if it couldn't happen in a 2-party system then you have to take the whole Hindenburg situation into account many countries with many parties winning, others not so much the Nazi shit is weak, Godwin's law, hold this L  |
|
|
|
|
Post by Don Rumata on Mar 17, 2016 17:34:22 GMT
In Sweden we have 349 seats shared by every party with over 4% votes. So you skip mostly the crazies and get serious parties (green party and left party excluded, but both at 4-6%) so in reality they don't get a lot of power. I just thing the two party system is crazy. You have two parties with more or less the same view. currently our 4 biggest are: Social Democratic Party of Switzerland Free Democratic Party of Switzerland Christian Democratic People's Party of Switzerland Swiss People's Party in case anybody cares LOL edit: just felt like looking up the translation by way of checking the link to the English wikipedia. the translations feel weird and off to me... |
|
|
|
|
Post by Don Rumata on Mar 17, 2016 17:37:02 GMT
the current "Nazi's" in Germany would been excluded by the Nazi Party in the 1930's
we have to look at this phenomena with the unique, current context
|
|
|
|
|
Post by R.I.P. uncle Teddy on Mar 17, 2016 17:37:39 GMT
Its a historical fact. Hitler was a majority leader because he was the largest minority. it fact but not a good argument on many levels you act like Germany having multiple parties caused the Nazi takeover as if it couldn't happen in a 2-party system then you have to take the whole Hindenburg situation into account many countries with many parties winning, others not so much the Nazi shit is weak, Godwin's law, hold this L The nazis couldnt have taken over in America at all. Thats my whole point. They were never a majority. The perfect example is trump. Even if Trump gets the nomination he has 0 chance of winning because he cant build a coalition within his own party. He gets ~35% of the vote consistently and wins. If you need about 50% of the vote to win you can spout fringe bullshit. Our most extreme presidents are like....Reagan Carter and FDR.... our most extreme party was probably the southern democrats who never won an election after Abraham Lincoln. |
|
|
|
|
Post by R.I.P. uncle Teddy on Mar 17, 2016 17:41:14 GMT
the current "Nazi's" in Germany would been excluded by the Nazi Party in the 1930's we have to look at this phenomena with the unique, current context My point wasnt to compare current extremists with past. It was to point out current extremists still get a large volume of seats. France elected a socialist president (which I guess isnt that uncommon) Germany's new anti immigration party is doing well. Theres tons of examples. |
|
|
|
|
Post by Don Rumata on Mar 17, 2016 17:48:44 GMT
easy
let's me bring up a different topic, i wonder what thenewBTE thinks.
Question: what measures would you take on the European migrant crisis?
|
|
|
Deleted
•
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2016 17:52:02 GMT
Mormon unsurprisingly is against equal representation. Because his staunchly conservative voice is being heard loud and clear right now. Again, not surprising.
|
|
|
Deleted
•
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2016 17:55:48 GMT
Also it's funny given Mormon's argument that Trump can't get elected when he got 46-47% of the vote in Florida. A really racial diverse, various religions, tons of different age groups (although the democrats are mostly old retirees from the midwest), and generally a different take on politics regionally compared to bordering states like Georgia and South Carolina.
If anything Trump winning Florida how he did shows that he's not only going to win the nomination, but that his message probably doesn't have a hard cap like we thought. We're gonna see it again in a couple weeks with New York coming up but still.
Hold this L.
|
|
|
|
|
Post by R.I.P. uncle Teddy on Mar 17, 2016 18:33:56 GMT
Also it's funny given Mormon's argument that Trump can't get elected when he got 46-47% of the vote in Florida. A really racial diverse, various religions, tons of different age groups (although the democrats are mostly old retirees from the midwest), and generally a different take on politics regionally compared to bordering states like Georgia and South Carolina. If anything Trump winning Florida how he did shows that he's not only going to win the nomination, but that his message probably doesn't have a hard cap like we thought. We're gonna see it again in a couple weeks with New York coming up but still. Hold this L. Winning 46% in a primary isnt the same as the general election lol. How many people participate in primaries? It has to be way less than 10% And proportional representation would give hardcore conservatives a larger voice. Hardcore conservative is something I am definitely not anyway. |
|
|
Deleted
•
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2016 18:34:55 GMT
Also it's funny given Mormon's argument that Trump can't get elected when he got 46-47% of the vote in Florida. A really racial diverse, various religions, tons of different age groups (although the democrats are mostly old retirees from the midwest), and generally a different take on politics regionally compared to bordering states like Georgia and South Carolina. If anything Trump winning Florida how he did shows that he's not only going to win the nomination, but that his message probably doesn't have a hard cap like we thought. We're gonna see it again in a couple weeks with New York coming up but still. Hold this L. Winning 46% in a primary isnt the same as the general election lol. How many people participate in primaries? It has to be way less than 10% And proportional representation would give hardcore conservatives a larger voice. Hardcore conservative is something I am definitely not anyway. It's definitely a sign he has mass appeal. Which is all I'm saying. |
|
|
|
|
Post by R.I.P. uncle Teddy on Mar 17, 2016 18:47:44 GMT
Winning 46% in a primary isnt the same as the general election lol. How many people participate in primaries? It has to be way less than 10% And proportional representation would give hardcore conservatives a larger voice. Hardcore conservative is something I am definitely not anyway. It's definitely a sign he has mass appeal. Which is all I'm saying. Hes winning 35% of the votes on average, which is maybe enough to get him the largest minority in the system you propose, but not enough to win him an election now. |
|
|
Deleted
•
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2016 18:49:04 GMT
It's definitely a sign he has mass appeal. Which is all I'm saying. Hes winning 35% of the votes on average, which is maybe enough to get him the largest minority in the system you propose, but not enough to win him an election now. Sure but in one of the largest and most diverse states he just got 45%. Let me repeat that again, in one of the largest and most diverse states he just got 45% of the vote. |
|
|
|
|
Post by R.I.P. uncle Teddy on Mar 17, 2016 18:53:56 GMT
Hes winning 35% of the votes on average, which is maybe enough to get him the largest minority in the system you propose, but not enough to win him an election now. Sure but in one of the largest and most diverse states he just got 45%. Let me repeat that again, in one of the largest and most diverse states he just got 45% of the vote. Also a state where the conservative block is very conservative. On average hes only getting 35%, and the primaries are much more extreme than the general election. |
|
|
|
|
Post by Don Rumata on Mar 17, 2016 18:56:10 GMT
It's definitely a sign he has mass appeal. Which is all I'm saying. Hes winning 35% of the votes on average, which is maybe enough to get him the largest minority in the system you propose, but not enough to win him an election now. he probably deserves to run the largest minority party but he's running for the majority spot and the people who vote for him will not just disapear when he lose the elections at the end of the day |
|
|
|
|
Post by R.I.P. uncle Teddy on Mar 17, 2016 18:58:31 GMT
easy let's me bring up a different topic, i wonder what thenewBTE thinks. Question: what measures would you take on the European migrant crisis?If it was the US Id say let them all in assuming there was a good screening process for terrorists (which would be difficult) I think Europe is different because its culturally homogeneous and on the whole not culturally accepting. Especially places like France. I dont think it would even be economically beneficial if you had mass discrimination. |
|
|
Tom Is Dead
•
Irish Lass Kicker
Posts: 13,008
Likes: 8,196
:: I'll never love again
My World
Is
Ending
|
Post by Tom Is Dead on Mar 17, 2016 19:00:34 GMT
Also it's funny given Mormon's argument that Trump can't get elected when he got 46-47% of the vote in Florida. A really racial diverse, various religions, tons of different age groups ( although the democrats are mostly old retirees from the midwest), and generally a different take on politics regionally compared to bordering states like Georgia and South Carolina. If anything Trump winning Florida how he did shows that he's not only going to win the nomination, but that his message probably doesn't have a hard cap like we thought. We're gonna see it again in a couple weeks with New York coming up but still. Hold this L. not true. |
|
|
|
|
Post by R.I.P. uncle Teddy on Mar 17, 2016 19:01:16 GMT
Hes winning 35% of the votes on average, which is maybe enough to get him the largest minority in the system you propose, but not enough to win him an election now. he probably deserves to run the largest minority party but he's running for the majority spot and the people who vote for him will not just disapear when he lose the elections at the end of the day Him running the largest minority party would be a disaster. He doesnt represent the average americans interests at all. They wont disapear, but ultimately theyre just another one of the dozen groups in each party and they wont dominate the whole party but will have to compromise to a middle ground. |
|
|
|
|
Post by Last Stand on Mar 17, 2016 19:02:53 GMT
Dresta would be great for this thread alone.
|
|
|
|
|
Post by R.I.P. uncle Teddy on Mar 17, 2016 19:04:10 GMT
Dresta would be great for this thread alone. Lol, Id be glad to get dresta but Im pretty sure everyone hates him and he is definitely a massive bullshiter. |
|
|
Tom Is Dead
•
Irish Lass Kicker
Posts: 13,008
Likes: 8,196
:: I'll never love again
My World
Is
Ending
|
Post by Tom Is Dead on Mar 17, 2016 19:05:15 GMT
"hispanics hate trump"
-Clinton News Network, 2016
there is no mythical 'latino' vote. a cuban or argentine is not going to give a shit about the fed closing the border from the Mexcrement. To say so is borderline insulting to intelligence. People care about the same shit at the end of the day.
|
|
|
|
|
Post by Last Stand on Mar 17, 2016 19:06:24 GMT
Yo Canadians, thoughts on Justin and the Uber situation ?
|
|
|
|
|
Post by Don Rumata on Mar 17, 2016 19:07:10 GMT
he probably deserves to run the largest minority party but he's running for the majority spot and the people who vote for him will not just disapear when he lose the elections at the end of the day Him running the largest minority party would be a disaster. He doesnt represent the average americans interests at all.
They wont disapear, but ultimately theyre just another one of the dozen groups in each party and they wont dominate the whole party but will have to compromise to a middle ground. according to you but not according to the American voters i'm very convinced that it's beneficial for a country having the people involved in the political decision making. What i will say doe is that USA is a whole different animal in terms of scale, you can't just take the Swiss model and multiply it by 40 |
|
|
|
|
Post by R.I.P. uncle Teddy on Mar 17, 2016 19:08:21 GMT
"hispanics hate trump" -Clinton News Network, 2016 there is no mythical 'latino' vote. a cuban or argentine is not going to give a shit about the fed closing the border from the Mexcrement. To say so is borderline insulting to intelligence. People care about the same shit at the end of the day. Thats true, but latino is mostly mexican tbh. In a generation or two none will care about the issue anyway |
|
|
|
|
Post by Don Rumata on Mar 17, 2016 19:10:30 GMT
Dresta would be great for this thread alone. i tried to read some of his post but i can't take it after the first couple sentences i think this guy has a serious problem and no, it's not because of whether he's left, right, conservative or whatever very incoherent and always straight insulting talking down to people |
|
|
|
|
Post by R.I.P. uncle Teddy on Mar 17, 2016 19:15:11 GMT
Him running the largest minority party would be a disaster. He doesnt represent the average americans interests at all.
They wont disapear, but ultimately theyre just another one of the dozen groups in each party and they wont dominate the whole party but will have to compromise to a middle ground. according to you but not according to the American voters i'm very convinced that it's beneficial for a country having the people involved in the political decision making. What i will say doe is that USA is a whole different animal in terms of scale, you can't just take the Swiss model and multiply it by 40 According to the average American voter too. Thats the problem. You can be the largest minority and have a huge swathe of ideogical ground between you and the average voter. Trump represents that 35% very well and America as a whole very very poorly. |
|
|
