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Post by Scottie4Hottie on Jun 27, 2017 3:36:07 GMT
tsk and I had a conversation way back on who we thought would be studs in the NBA as soon as they got drafted. So I thought why don't we actually keep track, so we can actually see if we were right from the beginning. So lets do our prediction: Best player in the draft: Josh Jackson Rate your top 5: 1. Josh Jackson 2. Markell Fultz 3 Lonzo Ball 4. De'Aron Fox 5. Dennis Smith Jr.
Biggest steal:
Dennis Smith Jr. Runner ups: Zach Collins and OG Anunoby Biggest bust:
Lauri Markkanen Which 2nd rounder would have a permanent role in the NBA:
Dillon Brooks Let me know if we should add other categories. Hellfire Missile Pack can you tag everyone please.
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Post by Hellfire Missile Pack on Jun 28, 2017 2:44:16 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2017 2:50:29 GMT
Best player in the draft:
Jonathan Isaac
Rate your top 5:
1. Jonathan Isaac
2. Wesley Iwundu
3 Markell Fultz
4 Jayson Tatum
5. Dennis Smith Jr.
Biggest steal:
Wesley Iwundu
Runner ups: Malik Monk and OG Anunoby
Biggest bust:
Lonzo Ball
Which 2nd rounder would have a permanent role in the NBA:
Wesley Iwundu
I need some hope for orlando
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Post by Steve Nash on Jun 28, 2017 3:26:54 GMT
Best player in the draft:
Jayson Tatum
Top 5:
1. Jayson Tatum
2. Jayson Tatum
3. Jayson Tatum
4. Jayson Tatum
5. Jayson Tatum
Biggest steal:
Jayson Tatum
Biggest bust:
not Jayson Tatum
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2017 4:03:24 GMT
Best player in the draft: Jonathan Isaac Rate your top 5: 1. Jonathan Isaac 2. Wesley Iwundu 3 Markell Fultz 4 Jayson Tatum 5. Dennis Smith Jr. Biggest steal: Wesley Iwundu Runner ups: Malik Monk and OG Anunoby Biggest bust: Lonzo Ball Which 2nd rounder would have a permanent role in the NBA: Wesley Iwundu I need some hope for orlando Most accuratew |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2017 4:05:26 GMT
Best player in the draft:
Markelle Fultz
Rate your top 5:
1. Fultz
2. Isaac
3 Ball
4. Jackson
5. Tatum
Biggest steal:
Johnathan Isaac
Runner ups: DSJr
Biggest bust:
Lauri Markkanen
Which 2nd rounder would have a permanent role in the NBA:
Jawun Evans
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Post by frogthejam19 on Jun 28, 2017 4:06:35 GMT
Frank Ntilkina Will be one of the biggest Steals!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2017 4:09:26 GMT
Frank Ntilkina Will be one of the biggest Steals! oh i forgot about frank bustina, did has already busted though so how can you list him as most likely to bust when he's already a bust? |
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Post by frogthejam19 on Jun 28, 2017 4:18:10 GMT
Frank Ntilkina Will be one of the biggest Steals! oh i forgot about frank bustina, did has already busted though so how can you list him as most likely to bust when he's already a bust? You and Jam are gonna eat your words. |
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Post by Last Stand on Jun 28, 2017 4:24:36 GMT
Best player in the draft:
Lonzo Ball
Rate your top 5:
1. Lonzo Ball
2. Dennis Smith Jr.
3. Markelle Fultz
4. De'Aron Fox
5. Malik Monk
Biggest steal:
Dennis Smith Jr.
Runner ups:
Frank Nitlikina
Biggest bust:
Jayson Tatum
Which 2nd rounder would have a permanent role in the NBA:
Ivan Rabb
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Post by Scottie4Hottie on Jun 28, 2017 4:40:13 GMT
Best player in the draft: Josh Jackson Rate your top 5: 1. Lonzo Ball 2. Dennis Smith Jr. 3. Markelle Fultz 4. De'Aron Fox 5. Malik Monk Biggest steal: Dennis Smith Jr. Runner ups: Frank Nitlikina Biggest bust: Jayson Tatum Which 2nd rounder would have a permanent role in the NBA: Ivan Rabb How is Josh Jackson the best player in the draft but he isn't in your top 5 lolz. |
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Post by Last Stand on Jun 28, 2017 5:02:32 GMT
Best player in the draft: Josh Jackson Rate your top 5: 1. Lonzo Ball 2. Dennis Smith Jr. 3. Markelle Fultz 4. De'Aron Fox 5. Malik Monk Biggest steal: Dennis Smith Jr. Runner ups: Frank Nitlikina Biggest bust: Jayson Tatum Which 2nd rounder would have a permanent role in the NBA: Ivan Rabb How is Josh Jackson the best player in the draft but he isn't in your top 5 lolz. My bad, meant Ball not Jackson. |
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Post by TheEther on Jun 28, 2017 5:32:50 GMT
Best player in the draft:
Lonzo Ball
Rate your top 5:
1. Lonzo Ball
2. Markelle Fultz
3 Jonathan Isaac
4. Dennis Smith Jr.
5. Jayson Tatum
Biggest steal:
Derrick White
Biggest bust:
Josh Jackson
Which 2nd rounder would have a permanent role in the NBA:
Sterling Brown
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Post by Heisenberg on Jun 28, 2017 5:47:57 GMT
Best Player:
Lonzo Ball
Top 5:
1: Lonzo Ball
2: Dennis Smith Jr
3: Malik Monk
4: Johnathan Isaac
5: Jayson Tatum
Biggest Steal:
Malik Monk
Biggest Bust:
Josh Jackson
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Post by 寂しいマグナエクス on Jun 28, 2017 16:20:25 GMT
I don't watch college ball enough to know a lot of these guys but clearly Ball is the best passer to come into the draft since Wall (at least. he honestly looks like he'll be much bettte)
Fultz should be a good slasher, but he's not a real PG like ball. Looks closer to a Wade type, although I'm not sure hes capable of being efficient like an NBA player yet, his finishing is acrobatic but sometimes iffy.
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Post by WayOfWad3 on Jun 28, 2017 21:33:04 GMT
Here we freaking go:
Best Player-Lonzo Ball
Biggest Steal-Donovan Mitchell
Biggest Bust-Markelle Fultz (Going bold here). Also Tatum and the Knicks Pick
Other draftees who will do better than most-Frank Jackson, Bam Adebayo, Donovan Mitchell
Top 5:
1. Lonzo
2. D. Fox
3. Josh Jackson
4. D. Smith Jrz
5. Markell Fultz
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Post by bladefd on Jun 28, 2017 22:23:37 GMT
Nice, we have a lot of Lonzo fans here!!  Best player in the draft:
Lonzo Ball Rate your top 5:
1. Lonzo Ball 2. Markelle Fultz 3. Josh Jackson 4. De'Aaron Fox 5. Jayson Tatum Biggest steal:
Dennis Smith Jr. Runner ups: OG Anunoby, Jordan Bell, Josh Hart Biggest bust:
Zach Collins Which 2nd rounder would have a permanent role in the NBA:Jordan Bell Teams with best overall draft:Kings |
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Post by 寂しいマグナエクス on Jul 4, 2017 1:25:40 GMT
I know its not this draft, but simmons will be as interesting to see as anyone but ball. I dont think hes super quick BUT damn, does he have vision for a big forward, and he can jump pretty well too. Very interesting combo.
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Post by bladefd on Jul 18, 2017 8:34:48 GMT
Looking good so far for a bust and Jonathan Isaac best player in the draft. Waiting for pre-season next.
::thumbsup:: ;) ;)
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Post by 寂しいマグナエクス on Jul 22, 2017 1:04:17 GMT
Someone (other than OutRosez) explain to me how a guy who couldn't even bring his college team to ,500 is the first pick in the draft? After learning that I now have 0 faith in him regardless of whatever other indicators there are. That's pathetic. He's playing against sub d-league level teams. Get your fucking shit together kid. |
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Post by TheEther on Jul 22, 2017 2:08:28 GMT
Someone (other than OutRosez ) explain to me how a guy who couldn't even bring his college team to ,500 is the first pick in the draft? After learning that I now have 0 faith in him regardless of whatever other indicators there are. That's pathetic. He's playing against sub d-league level teams. Get your fucking shit together kid. Lol if you put any top 10 pick on that Washington there going under %500 his teammates were all time bad for a power conference roster. There isn't a correlation in team wins & Nba impact but there is a correlation of teammate strength & coaching in college wins. Using you logic that's why a talent like Paul George is taken after scrubs like Evan Turner & Wesley Johnson. |
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Post by TheEther on Jul 22, 2017 2:24:12 GMT
Anthony Davis had a losing record in High School. That's sub Ncaa competition and he still was the number one recruit.
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Post by 寂しいマグナエクス on Jul 22, 2017 2:46:51 GMT
Anthony Davis also hasnt won jack shit with passable rosters in the NBA....
Not saying fultz will suck or something, but jesus, 9-22 is fucking pathetic. Being on a good team doesn't mean you're good, and being on a bad team doesn't mean you're bad, but going 9-22 as supposedly one of the best players in the country while facing 6'7 centers is just....hard to look past.
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Post by TheEther on Jul 22, 2017 4:36:51 GMT
Anthony Davis also hasnt won jack shit with passable rosters in the NBA.... Not saying fultz will suck or something, but jesus, 9-22 is fucking pathetic. Being on a good team doesn't mean you're good, and being on a bad team doesn't mean you're bad, but going 9-22 as supposedly one of the best players in the country while facing 6'7 centers is just....hard to look past. When your team spends massive amounts of money on net negative players like Omer Asik & Solomon Hill I think most players would be winning jack shit. Anthony Davis has been top 10 in almost every impact stat while being one of the best clutch scorers since his second year so if he was put on team with competent coaching & teammates he would be seen as a winner. So saying someone isn't winner or hasn't won anything is retarded since you could be a good player who plays on losing team but be a bad player playing on good team. It's a terrible point since you could be a useless bum & lose or be a great player & lose. Was Kareem not a a good player when he wasn't making the playoff? Back to Fultz he can't control his teammates shooting 28% from 3 in conference play or his team having the worst defensive big lineup in the all of the NCAA. What he can control is his personal efficiency,his creation of shoots through passing & scoring,and his person defense assignment. Your question of why he was the #1 pick should instead who should of been the pick instead of him. Since he's not being compared to a imaginary standard but to other players. I personally has Lonzo Ball number #1 on my big board but the other players other than Ball who are "winners" have didn't really have any reason to be seen as better prospects than Futlz. These are Fultz teammates Fultz College TeamAs you look in the Advanced stats area there are only 2 players that have positive BPM that played major minutes. While he had teammates so Bad that they were deep in the negatives in college BPM which is startling bad for rotation players in NCAA team. Fultz has a 9.1 BPM,116 Offensive rating with extremely high volume of shots & ball handling duties while being at the age of 18 during his entire NCAA season. Tatum,Fox,Josh Jackson the few players who you could say are bigger winners played with many McDonald All Americans & College stars. Jayson Tatum 7.5 BPM,111 Offensive rating while playing with a good coach & great players. Duke had largely disappointing season and fell under there projected wins. De'aaron Fox was one of the worst 3p% lottery PG in the modern NBA draft era shooting 25% on low volume. While also having lower BPM of 8.7 and offensive rating of 113. Josh Jackson as super old freshman who is almost two years older than Fultz had a BPM of 10.7 because of defensive impact but faltering with a 110 Offensive rating with a Shaq like 57% percent from the FT line as a wing which also all time bad for a lottery wing. Teams draft players based on Goodness at young ages. So Fultz the youngest one and done lottery pick has better or as good impact stats than these older players who played with much better teammates. The one players to beat him out in a category Jackson is almost 2 years older him while shooting like College Shaq from the Ft line. Fox,Tatum,Josh Jackson arguably weren't even the best players on them team with Monk argubly being better as he won SEC player of the year & Kennard runner up for ACC player of the year & Frank Mason being POY in College basketball. So there no reason you could give to think if any these players would help Washington get to a %500 record or even improve their win total. While if Fultz played for Kentucky,Duke,Kansas would he would be seen in a better light since all these teams would be able to have winning records even without their top 5 pick star freshman which they all did when Fox,Tatum,Jackson missed games due to injury or suspension while Washington did not win one game without Fultz while he was injured.So narrative muh wins he's loser is dumb and casual as it gets if you breakdown why their records were as they were. |
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Post by TheEther on Jul 22, 2017 4:45:45 GMT
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Post by 寂しいマグナエクス on Jul 23, 2017 17:37:40 GMT
Ill try to write out a full response later if I remember, but youre kind of making points that I wouldnt disagree with but arent fully relevant to what Im saying.
First off, you have to realize that compared to an NBA caliber player, the average NCAA player is junk. Just between the D League and the NCAA there is a pretty huge gap, and then theres a huge gap between the NBA and the D League.
And Im not going to disqualify the fact that he had bad teammates but theres just a certain point where thats irrelevant when talking about a player of this supposed caliber. Like, a first pick (and most high NBA caliber NCAA players) should be Lebron equivalent in the NCAA unless youre just drafting him based on talent, which IMO is dumb. Now think of it this way, are there even any teams in the NBA where Lebron would get an equivalent record to 9-22? I dont think there are any.
Now let me add this adendum, because it might be relevant to fultz. There are certain athletic playing styles that work better in the NBA than the NCAA. That may be the case for fultz. The fact that the NCAA is a bad analogue for NBA play in many cases means Ill give him some slack, but even then....9-22 is just iffy. There are plenty of junk little teams with one star that have done fine...
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Post by TheEther on Jul 23, 2017 21:16:00 GMT
Ill try to write out a full response later if I remember, but youre kind of making points that I wouldnt disagree with but arent fully relevant to what Im saying. First off, you have to realize that compared to an NBA caliber player, the average NCAA player is junk. Just between the D League and the NCAA there is a pretty huge gap, and then theres a huge gap between the NBA and the D League. And Im not going to disqualify the fact that he had bad teammates but theres just a certain point where thats irrelevant when talking about a player of this supposed caliber. Like, a first pick (and most high NBA caliber NCAA players) should be Lebron equivalent in the NCAA unless youre just drafting him based on talent, which IMO is dumb. Now think of it this way, are there even any teams in the NBA where Lebron would get an equivalent record to 9-22? I dont think there are any. Now let me add this adendum, because it might be relevant to fultz. There are certain athletic playing styles that work better in the NBA than the NCAA. That may be the case for fultz. The fact that the NCAA is a bad analogue for NBA play in many cases means Ill give him some slack, but even then....9-22 is just iffy. There are plenty of junk little teams with one star that have done fine...And? What does the talent of the opponents have anything to do with the argument. Every player I listed had less personal efficiency while playing the same junk talent with a lower usage. The only reason there teams had more personal success was because they had multiple good teammates and one who were better NCAA players than them. The ability of the opponent is a baseline that NCAA prospects share against The two bolded statements are not true and not rooted in any facts but your own words. You can not be a junk team and do well with one star. By doing well with only one good player makes you not a junk team. Steph Curry's Davidson teams had mutiple 40 plus 3pt% shooters. Same with Doug Mcd Creighton teams & Jimmer Fredette's BYU teams Damian Lillard's Weber state had More success when he left than when he was there they even made the NCAA tournament. At most a star player can only give 30 points the other 50 points have to come from somewhere. Everyone of these teams had winning records within 2 season of their stars leaving. Drafting based on looking who's on good teams or is a "winner" is one of the dumbest strategies and has gotten GMs canned & lampooned for drafting older "winners" who if you looked deep in the data weren't as good as they you would think. Andrew Wiggins not Lebron. Ben Simmmons not Lebron. Karl Towns not Lebron. Anthony Bennett,Victor Oladipo,Otto Porter not Lebron. Kyrie Irving not Lebron. John Wall not Lebron. Blake Griffin not Lebron. Derrick Rose not Lebron. Fultz compares with statistically with every one of these guys. No recent Number one pick other than Anthony Davis had a Lebron like impact in the NCAA and that was because he was maybe the greatest interior defender in NCAA history. You can't control if you teammates brick open threes & are the worst defenders in a power conference. By saying that since Fultz didn't have a Lebron like impact on his team he doesn't qualify as anumber one pick is straw man that not based in reality. No 18 year old NCAA player other than Anthony Davis, Greg Oden or Maybe Kevin Durant could give that Washington team a winning record. They were losing by the 40s in conference without Fultz. Basketball is a team sport. A team can lose even with a good player if the other individuals are playing on level that even with the large contributions of one good player that is subpar. What are you saying? You asked how a guy with a bad team record went one. Because I don't really understand what point your making with that question. That Fultz shouldn't be picked number 1 or high because an arbitrary criteria not based reality or what actually makes good NBA players? Analytics teams have him as a top 2 consensus prospect in this draft with Lonzo Ball. NBA Gm's,Scouts & Executives when polled had him as the consensus number 1 prospect. No top 10 pick had a Lebron like impact in this draft so I don't understand what is the problem with the pick of Fultz of number one. Drafting on Talent is dumb makes no sense. Because every pick in the draft is based on talent. Acquisition of cheap,young talent is how bad teams gain value on their roster. I can give you data,analytics,what actual Gm's think,People's opinions who are a lot smarter than me on Prospect evaluation. Let me give you a secret you now what is strongest predictor we can find of NBA Success. Overall Consensus & advance consensus. By putting all analytic models & datas in one average that's Advanced Consensus. By putting every big board with the advanced consensus that the overall consensus. So Fultz is number top 2 in both of these & the only person who comes close is Lonzo Ball. So you think GM's are dumb for thinking Fultz is a better prospect than Lonzo Ball? |
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Post by TheEther on Jul 23, 2017 22:13:34 GMT
Paul George a consensus top 5 SF for most of his career went 27-39 in his NCAA career as a lottery talent in the WAC one of the worst conferences in NCAA major basketball while "winners like Evan Turner,Wesley Johnson,Ekpe Udoh" went on to be massive busts.
Drafting for Talent is dumb?
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Post by TheEther on Jul 23, 2017 22:29:39 GMT
Who should of been the number 1 pick if not Fultz?
Please answer this question if you're going shit on someone for being picked among his peers not by a fake standard.
You even said you didn't know he team was so bad & don't care about any other indicators so you already made your mind up even with all the information available to show why teams thought he was the consensus top prospect.
When with all available information shows that no player with worse efficiency than Futlz & negligible impact on defense would of helped this team. Which would be every player picked near Fultz but maybe Lonzo Ball the qualifier set shows that no one should be the number one pick going by your reasoning.
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