|
Post by 寂しいマグナエクス on Mar 22, 2016 4:08:20 GMT
寂しいマグナエクス I understand what you're saying now. This is a concept that a lot on the RealGM Player Comparisons board have played around with. Not precisely quantified, but the quality has been called portability. More portable players tend to be more additive in a variety of circumstances. It's still a fuzzy concept, but a lot of us when evaluating players do so on a basis of both ability to impact the game (something like RAPM, which tries to isolate how much you affect point differential) and how portable you are. It's harder to have that additive value on a better team, so even last year, that was central to the argument for Curry over Harden (since Steph was improving a very good team -> an all-time one, rather than a decent/below average one -> a very good one). I think it's a cool idea for sure, though I'm concerned about much more than offense/defense splits (since everything on both ends is interconnected a ton). Though different elements of a guy's game are more portable/conducive to being additive. Would be fun to play around with it more, I'll try and think about your post a bit this week when I have some free time. fpliiiEh, that's not really what Im talking about. It's a component of it. What you seem to be talking about is basically what skills a player has that don't require possessions to have an impact on a game, which leads the player to be able to fit anywhere. That's a part of it, but what I'm talking about is a more comprehensive theory of how players interact, and how even those skills have diminishing returns at a lesser volume. What I'm saying, is if you had enough data and used it in the right circumstances, you could predict within a reasonable amount what a whole team's individual stats would be when you add or subtract any given player (and thusly their impact on the teams record) To do this, you would have to record how quantifiable skills a player has interact with other players on the court at the time. Your argument that Curry could probably make a good team great easier than Harden might have merit, but my point is more along the lines that if Harden was given a certain team, he might look better than Curry, although for that comparison I have a hard time seeing such a situation. It's hard to explain because it's hard to give a specific example, but here is a modern player that I think is a good example of how it might work. Now under a theory of "portability" Draymond green would have more value than a similarly talented player who might need the ball a lot or have a net negative impact on his team, but let's look at Draymond's skills and how they fit into a team. First, he is a capable spotup shooter, and that is a skill that has value on almost any team, but the question is, does it have more value because his teammates shoot well enough that they take attention away from him? Probably. So now onto screening, another one of his better skills. This skill is extra valuable on the warriors because they have a few players who really excel at scoring off of screens. Now look at his passing. It's another skills that really sticks out for the warriors because Steph is more of a scoring guard than a traditional point guard, giving Draymond more opportunities to use this skill both because Curry and Klay play so well off of him, and because he gets to be used in a role that might more often be traditionally used for guards. But think of all these skills on a different team. Say we stick Draymond on a team that doesn't have a ton of shooters as the primary scorers. Maybe the 01 Lakers. Suddenly his value to the team goes way down. When he's not screening for Curry and Klay, not getting a lot of chances to move the ball because it's dominated by Shaq and Kobe, suddenly he's more of a traditional spot up shooter and his value is way less, or maybe not? It's just how I think the theory would apply, but it might play out differently if you could actually apply such data. And it's not that he wouldn't be valuable just less so. Maybe more similar to what Horry did on that team.
|
|
|
|
Post by Last Stand on Mar 22, 2016 9:25:35 GMT
Unmasked Mamba doing so well lately. 50% or better 9 of the last 12 Yeah well, you guys can go to hell !
|
|
|
Deleted
•
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2016 12:58:33 GMT
Unmasked Mamba doing so well lately. 50% or better 9 of the last 12 Yeah well, you guys can go to hell ! If the Kings played defense last night the Bulls probably lose. It was a close game till the Bulls went on a massive run in the 4th. Kings caught up when the starters were effectively pulled but still. First time the Bulls have won 3 in a row since December I think too lol.
|
|
|
Deleted
•
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2016 14:10:14 GMT
bran unfollowed the cavs on Twitter What's the point of that?
|
|
|
|
Post by Steve Nash on Mar 22, 2016 14:14:02 GMT
Probably more passive aggressive stuff,a new version of those cryptic tweets/instagrams.
|
|
|
Deleted
•
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2016 14:43:27 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by Scottie4Hottie on Mar 22, 2016 15:58:40 GMT
LOL Low Sack Soreness, God I'm so immature.
|
|
|
|
Post by dunksby on Mar 22, 2016 16:07:56 GMT
Mag, what's wrong with you? You always get into these kind of rants and consequently start making stupid statements like "I'd take Aldridge or Leonard over Davis in a heartbeat" or "Asik would be a DPOTY candidate". These assertions are not even worth considering, yet you spit them out like some common belief or at worst part of common discourse. Sometimes you make good points, here and there, but at the same time you surround them with so much BS claims that makes it hard to take your arguments seriously. Take it down a notch with all your bold and supposedly edgy ideas, so we could have a proper discussion, and this is coming from someone who started the discussion about AD's disappointing performance...
|
|
|
|
Post by Last Stand on Mar 22, 2016 16:22:40 GMT
bran unfollowed the cavs on Twitter What's the point of that? Don't care, to be honest. If it helps the Cavaliers implode come playoff time, I'm down for it. The media has nothing better to do that stay on the guys nuts about ever little move he makes.
|
|
|
|
Post by WayOfWad3 on Mar 22, 2016 16:24:11 GMT
bran unfollowed the cavs on Twitter What's the point of that? He said it's to help focus for the playoffs. That doesn't make much sense though, seeing as his team will be in the playoffs and if he wanted he could just not log into Twitter as he's done in the past. In my opinion, he's trying to scare Cleveland into thinking he still might leave so that they continue to do his bidding
|
|
|
|
Post by Steve Nash on Mar 22, 2016 16:28:16 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by ballup on Mar 22, 2016 16:37:22 GMT
Lebron should start following other teams as his next passive aggressive social media move
|
|
|
|
Post by Last Stand on Mar 22, 2016 17:04:31 GMT
bran unfollowed the cavs on Twitter What's the point of that? He said it's to help focus for the playoffs. That doesn't make much sense though, seeing as his team will be in the playoffs and if he wanted he could just not log into Twitter as he's done in the past. In my opinion, he's trying to scare Cleveland into thinking he still might leave so that they continue to do his bidding The man has one of the worst PR teams I've ever seen. A 13 year veteran all of a sudden needs to "focus" for the playoffs. A guy who has career averages in the playoffs better than 99% of every NBA player who has ever stepped foot on a court... by unfollowing twitter and instagram pages of the team he's on ? Again, don't give a shit but if this helps the Cavs implode because they are bunch of attention whore prima donnas, I'm all for it. Helps my team out, sorta.
|
|
|
|
Post by 寂しいマグナエクス on Mar 22, 2016 17:48:54 GMT
Mag, what's wrong with you? You always get into these kind of rants and consequently start making stupid statements like "I'd take Aldridge or Leonard over Davis in a heartbeat" or "Asik would be a DPOTY candidate". These assertions are not even worth considering, yet you spit them out like some common belief or at worst part of common discourse. Sometimes you make good points, here and there, but at the same time you surround them with so much BS claims that makes it hard to take your arguments seriously. Take it down a notch with all your bold and supposedly edgy ideas, so we could have a proper discussion, and this is coming from someone who started the discussion about AD's disappointing performance... Yeah, both of those claims are true. I would take Aldridge over AD, and Asik absolutely has played DPOTY caliber D in the past. That shouldn't be controversial at all unless you dont remember how good Asik was. Especially considering some of the recent DPOTYs.
|
|
|
|
Post by BurningHammer on Mar 22, 2016 17:55:11 GMT
Raptors clinch a playoff spot and are 1 game behind the Cavs for the 1st seed. Cavs are thinking of resting players. Should Raps do the same?
|
|
|
|
Post by 寂しいマグナエクス on Mar 22, 2016 18:13:33 GMT
The whole thing about AD is the common narrative about him doesnt add up at all. Hes supposed to be some dominant defensive player, DPOTY caliber even, and yet despite playing with another great defensive center, his team was ranked in the 20's on D last year. Im not saying hes not a good defender, but peoples arguments for how good he is just dont add up. Certainly not good enough to warrant the DPOTY votes he got.
|
|
|
|
Post by ballup on Mar 22, 2016 18:19:18 GMT
Raptors clinch a playoff spot and are 1 game behind the Cavs for the 1st seed. Cavs are thinking of resting players. Should Raps do the same? Better to get swept by a 7th seed than by an 8th seed
|
|
|
|
Post by Last Stand on Mar 22, 2016 18:24:12 GMT
Cavs are thinking of resting players. Should Raps do the same? Better to get swept by a 7th seed than by an 8th seed Like fucking hell it is. That's still a humiliation no matter how you cut it.
|
|
|
|
Post by BurningHammer on Mar 22, 2016 18:44:41 GMT
Cavs are thinking of resting players. Should Raps do the same? Better to get swept by a 7th seed than by an 8th seed Bulls can still drop onto Raps at this point. Fingers are crossed.
|
|
|
Deleted
•
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2016 19:24:24 GMT
Davis is way fucking overrated unless you're still saying "well he's got the potential though" which fine, he does certainly. But first he has to A. actually play enough games for it to mean something and B. actually live up to that potential. LMA is putting up the lowest totals he has since his sophomore year basically except in terms of efficiency. Which is fine, he's acclimating to a new system, but the last couple of months in particular he's absolutely thrived in that system upping his numbers in every statistical offensive category, without sacrificing team wins (something Davis and Pro-Davis people most certainly cannot attest too given his shot attempts being the same as last year and him having seemingly already plateaued.) Even when the Blazers were complete shit after Roy retired and Oden was well ya know. Was 28 wins, which is two shy of what the Pelicans have now. So they may or may not pass that depending on stuff. and the rosters were arguably equal. but let's go back to last year which is when Davis had his best season. In games Davis didn't play the Pelicans, with mostly the same roster as this year although with a little less Jrue, were 8-6 in games he either didn't play or played less than 10 minutes and if you want to throw in another game where he played 13 that's 8-7. Meanwhile before the horrible Matthews injury the Blazers were looking like a dark horse contender. Leading the league in 3s when he went down, acquired Afflalo and they were looking like a force. Then reality set in, and Afflalo couldn't carry the load and they washed out. Meanwhile Davis playoff debut was a myriad of garbage times stats (game 1), empty stats (games 2 and 4), and a hell of a performance for a half in game 3. Which he had 20 by half (if I'm remembering correctly) Offensively last year they were pretty good. 8th overall, and defensively they were...22nd?!!?!?!?!!? With the guy who anchored a top ten defense surrounded by Harden, Lin, Jones, and Parsons!??!!?!? WHAT!?!? And potential DPOY Davis? Aldridge certainly isn't an elite defender by any stretch of the imagination, in fact I'd argue he's barely more than an above average defender. But there's basically no statistic that supports Davis being anything special himself on that side of the ball. So that was nice. This Year Davis comes in with heightened expectations: 50 wins, MVP candidate, a top 4 seed, good defense, a dominant offensive force and well.... He put up a new career high in points, well not quite he missed that by .1 ppg And did so all while dropping his efficiency, becoming a subpar 3 point shooter (33% on 2 takes a game), a career low in FG%, 2PT%, EFG%, effectively tied his career low FT%, tied his career low for TSS% and became a worse shot blocker, by about a block a game. Also he took another shot a game compared to last year. It wasn't all bad, he played 1 more game than he did his rookie year, and just 7 less than last year so hey he's got that consistency going for him I guess. Put him his career low in ORTG, and was his usual self on DRTG Meanwhile Aldridge well.....Playing 5 minutes less per game, and in a slower offense than almost every season, than he has since his rookie year...decided to drop 5 points, shave off a rebound and a half, lose .2 in the assist column,up a little in blocks but down a bit in steals (actually more than a bit .3) Lowered his turnovers, upped his efficiency in every shooting category (including a career high in TS%, FT%, just under his in FG% and EFG% though. But on a per 36 basis (and he's a career 35 minutes game guy) he's basically having the same year as last year (which was pretty good) under this year's percentages which is pretty well...elite. Sure he loses 2 points, but he also ditches 4 shots still. Oh and he decided to up his ORTG a bit, and become a really great defender posting the best DRTG he's ever had by far. Oh and I forgot,is on pace to be part of one of the best 15? or so teams of all time. Might crack 70 wins if he's lucky. I mean at worst he finishes with 68...which is still one of the best seasons ever for any team.
|
|
|
|
Post by 寂しいマグナエクス on Mar 22, 2016 19:33:16 GMT
Yeah, Id argue this year Aldridge is maybe not elite on D, but a very very good defender. Especially when Duncan is on the floor with him.
|
|
|
|
Post by ballup on Mar 22, 2016 20:03:34 GMT
Better to get swept by a 7th seed than by an 8th seed Like fucking hell it is. That's still a humiliation no matter how you cut it.
|
|
|
|
Post by Last Stand on Mar 22, 2016 20:12:28 GMT
Like fucking hell it is. That's still a humiliation no matter how you cut it. You must understand, I and many other Raptor fans are still in PTSD from last season and this entire franchise in general.
|
|
|
|
Post by Steve Nash on Mar 22, 2016 20:13:58 GMT
We don't talk about last season.
|
|
|
|
Post by WayOfWad3 on Mar 23, 2016 1:25:17 GMT
We don't talk about last season. Are you a Raptors fan Chrome?
|
|
|
|
Post by Steve Nash on Mar 23, 2016 1:25:56 GMT
We don't talk about last season. Are you a Raptors fan Chrome? Unfortunately.
|
|
|
|
Post by WayOfWad3 on Mar 23, 2016 3:16:29 GMT
Are you a Raptors fan Chrome? Unfortunately. Respect, the only franchise with anywhere near as bad luck were the Clippers. This year though 2nd round is all but guaranteed (I hope)!
|
|
|
|
Post by Steve Nash on Mar 23, 2016 10:51:09 GMT
Unfortunately. Respect, the only franchise with anywhere near as bad luck were the Clippers. This year though 2nd round is all but guaranteed (I hope)! The only saving grace is that expectations are usually limited to the second round, while the Clippers are expected to do more. Last year was still hell though.
|
|
|
|
Post by dunksby on Mar 23, 2016 15:45:57 GMT
I sure as hell hope Westbrook carries this form into the playoffs, he is exerting too much energy on the boards, but who am I kidding? Ibaka is shit at rebounding, so he needs to go hard for rebounds.
|
|
|
|
Post by KyleKong on Mar 23, 2016 19:31:31 GMT
Watching Westbrook go bananas during games is seriously was of the most enjoyable things about this season.
Why is he so angry all the time? Haha
|
|
|